Jun
27

Affordable Care Act – SCOTUS Open Thread

By

Let fly.

Categories : Health Care, Open Thread

Comments

  1. [insert obligatory “i don’t care because it was a sell-out piece of crap legislation that had better get repealed so we can get down to business, pass a single payer solution (or, better yet, nationalize the doctors and pharmaceuticals) and be done with it once and for all” comment here]

  2. Tim Peck says:

    “nationalize the doctors”

    Thank you. An open admission that proponents of socialized health care are advocating involuntary servitude of the productive class.
    ……………………..

  3. TJ says:

    Well, and that care has reduced its’ covered benefits, as well. So, higher numbers, less care?

    Example: eye care is not covered to get glasses…unless it’s medical illness related (i.e., glaucoma). I guess kids don’t need glasses to see well, or, adults for that matter. After all, our educational system is so great, that it doesn’t matter. Right?

    Well, we don’t want an educated populace, anyway, do we? After all, they may grow up to be activists, if they know what we are doing.

  4. “Thank you. An open admission that proponents of socialized health care are advocating involuntary servitude of the productive class.”

    No, they are not. I am. What the proponents of “socialized” health care in this country currently want is yet another system of corporate welfare that forces everyone to buy private insurance. No one in the Democratic power structure made any serious effort at getting single payer even talked about and only one Congressperson had the nerve to introduce legislation that would have come close.

    I speak for myself, not the DNC, Tim. You shouldn’t flatter yourself by thinking you’ve pierced some deep, dark veil of secrecy into the secret world of the Trilluminatiburger UN Commission. I understand how the paranoid delusions of your favorite authors might lead you to believe otherwise, but the world really is just a tottering center-right mass of consumer capitalism and its quite happy to remain that way if unchecked.

    And please, “productive class”? Take that lame Randian horse dung back to your friends at the Mises Institute. “Productive” my fat butt. They sit back like fat ass leeches watching hundreds and thousands of people below them do the actual producing, the actual work, the actual business of America, such as it is.

    They are not at risk. They have invested only mythical money and effort. They have the full legal protection of corporate law backing them up in case it all falls apart.

    And don’t tell me they’d trade all of that in a minute so they could live out their libertarian fantasies. It’s bull. They use government as a shield to lie, cheat, and steal every last ounce of energy from the working class and use it to create immoral and despicable amounts of wealth for themselves.

  5. TJ says:

    Aw, Mat, you’re just no fun lately. One thing to remember is what any good therapist knows. You should let him have his delusions, unless you have something else to replace it (or, if he does). Take away a person’s coping mechanism (healthy or not), and it triggers a crisis.

    Or, just give him the local crisis number and write up a disclaimer
    馃槈

  6. Tom Sullivan says:

    I have to be in my cubical “producing” at 10 a.m. when they announce. (I started in this business running a jackhammer; now I just practice Thinkology.)

    Hope I won’t be missing any great tailgating parties.

  7. Roger E. Hartley says:

    Well my two cents is that this could be even worse for insurance companies than they have it now. Strip away the electoral politics for just a second and look at the policy. It was a very complex deal with a lot of compromise. The key to getting insurance companies on board…and they were my tea party friends is a mandate that would give private insurers 20-40 million new customers that they didn’t have before. I’m right, right?

    So let’s go on. If the court strips the mandate…or anything else…you are left with. Some winners and some big big losers. Take out the mandate and the law now requires coverage of kids until 26 by parents and a very expensive (and I think necessary) mandate to cover pre existing conditions. If the courts strikes that and keeps this…insurance companies are cooked…and did they bring it on themselves by supporting candidates that demanded this?

  8. Roger E. Hartley says:

    Mr. Peck…insurance companies begged for this law. That is why Romney passed the same thing in Mass. Are we at least in agreement on that?

    Now shift to politics. If this is struck down in part or in whole, it is a win for the President. Keeping it in place and passing it is what motivated tea party voters. If it stays…they will stay motivated. If it fails…you will wildly motivate liberal voters who stayed home last time on two fronts: keep the President and attack the activist conservative court; and a do nothing Congress that will refuse to touch it.

    Anyone taking bets?

  9. Davyne Dial says:

    Roberts turned……Wonders never cease.

  10. RHS says:

    Now, how long before Mittens flips again and starts proclaiming that it was all his idea all along?

  11. Ben says:

    @RHS – ha seriously…either he pivots and takes credit, or doubles-down and this election has just become a referendum on SCOTUS and uneducated anger against Affordable Health Care Act. Funny that Roberts took the side of the thoughtful 4, allowing the conservative justices to save face but try to make SCOTUS look less partisan…yeah right.

  12. Tom Sullivan says:

    The radical “mandate” socialists at the Heritage Foundation have won.

    Romney fires back.

    On Twitter, conservatives talk of moving to Canada.

    Per @MHarrisPerry, @SenRandPaul said that just because SCOTUS declared something to be constitutional, “that does not make it so.”

    Remedial Civics, stat!

  13. Tom Sullivan says:

    WAIT! Are those war drums?

  14. Michael Muller says:

    There’s nothing quite like the sound of war drums, Tom 馃檪

  15. The ruling basically puts the whole dreamy concept of a non-profit national health program in this country to death. Now it will never happen. Even though it was highly unlikely before, now it is officially dead.

    America needed health reform, and what we got was Insurance reform instead. Typical, that only ancillary problems even get addressed.

    Now we are a captive market. If anyone thinks that will lead to lower costs to consumers in the long term, or a braking tendency on soaring profits, well, good luck with that.

    I’m completely disappointed in the whole thing.

  16. ScotusBlog, in plain English.

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/the-mandate-is-constitutional-in-plain-english/

  17. mcates says:

    As well as CNN…

    Supreme Court Health Care Ruling: CNN, Fox News Wrong On Individual Mandate

    “The trouble started early for CNN. Congressional correspondent Kate Boulduan read out part of the Court’s ruling, which said that the individual mandate could not be upheld using the Commerce Clause. Disastrously, though, it failed to pick up the other part of the ruling, which said that it could be upheld as a tax.

    “Wow, that’s a dramatic moment,” Wolf Blitzer said, as a chyron saying “SUPREME CT. KILLS INDIVIDUAL MANDATE” flashed on the screen.

    “The Justices have just gutted, Wolf, the centerpiece provision of the health care law,” John King said, adding that it was a “direct blow to President Obama.”

    Later, Boulduan returned to correct the initial report. She said that the Court had released a “very confusing large opinion” and that on the second read, it was apparent that the network had gotten it wrong. “The entire law has been upheld, Wolf,” she said.”

    and…

    鈥淲e have breaking news here on the Fox News Channel,” anchor Bill Hemmer said. “The individual mandate has been ruled unconstitutional.”

    Megyn Kelly jumped in. “We’re getting conflicting information,” she said.

    The Huffington Post was not immune to the confusion. A tweet from the Politics section initially said that the mandate had been struck down.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/cnn-supreme-court-health-care-individual-mandate_n_1633950.html

  18. I haven’t seen centrists so giddy in a long while. Sausage wins.

  19. Gordon Smith says:

    Statement from Patsy Keever:

    Statement of Patsy Keever:
    Affordable Care Act upheld by Supreme Court

    Today the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Affordable Care Act and demonstrated how political leanings can be set aside to resolve the vital issues confronting Americans.

    It is a good sign for our nation that a conservative chief justice, appointed by a Republican president, joined with more moderate members of the court to uphold the Affordable Care Act.

    Congressman Patrick McHenry, and others who opposed the ACA, should now accept the ruling and join with Democrats, Moderates and Independents to adopt new federal policies that create jobs for North Carolina.

    Just imagine what we could accomplish if we all stood together to create jobs by ending federal policies that export American jobs to Mexico, India and China. That鈥檚 the approach I will take in Congress. I will work with Democrats, Independents and Republicans to create jobs for the people of North Carolina.

    Let me just share with you some of the benefits that Americans have already enjoyed under the Affordable Care Act:
    路 In North Carolina alone, 216,649 families will be receiving $18.6 million in rebates from insurance companies this summer, an average of $158 per family.

    路 Insurance companies can no longer cancel the policies of people who get sick.

    路 54 million Americans have coverage of preventive service free of charge because of the ACA.

    路 The ACA eliminated the lifetime limit on healthcare coverage for 105 million Americans.

    路 If you are a young adult, you can now stay on your parents鈥 health care plan until age 26.

    路 Senior citizens now get a 50% discount on prescription drugs as part of Medicare Part D.

    There will be many more benefits from the ACA in the coming years as the number of people who have health insurance is expanded and the cost is reduced.

    I imagine that there are families all over North Carolina right now who are breathing a sigh of relief.
    路 They won鈥檛 lose their newfound health care or be faced with higher costs.

    路 Parents can take care of their young adult children.

    路 Seniors can continue to get lower cost prescription drugs.

    路 And hundreds of thousands of North Carolina families will continue to have access to lower cost health insurance now and in the future.

    I fully expect now that Patrick McHenry will join with other extreme members of the Tea Party in Washington D.C. and begin to call for repeal of the ACA.

    That will be such a shame and a waste of time because what we should all be focusing on now is creating jobs for the future and stopping federal policies that continue to send North Carolina jobs to Mexico, China and India.

    Regardless of what side you were on, the ruling has been made and we need to move forward together to get our economy back on track and not waste time and energy on fighting battles of the past that only serve the purpose of dividing us further.

  20. Because this is an open thread and I was just thinking about this:

    Dear Abby,

    I am about to marry the girl of my dreams. We have been seeing each other for months now, and I think it is time that she met the family.

    My mother started drinking heavily after my father deserted the Marines and joined a Communist country’s military.

    My baby sister is a prostitute and has what we call a “social disease.” My younger brother is a Republican who voted twice for Reagan.

    My older brother and one cousin are in the local jail for embezzlement and my grandparents suffer from dementia and alzheimers….

    My question is, should I tell my girl, whom I plan to marry, about my brother the Republican?

  21. nick s says:

    An open admission that proponents of socialized health care are advocating involuntary servitude of the productive class.

    I prefer the term “stuff their mouths with gold”. At least Peckerwood can rest assured that his chance of servitude under the revolution are slim to nonexistent.

  22. shadmarsh says:

    It’s funny because it’s true…

  23. Tom Sullivan says:

    You know what comes next, don’t you?

    Guns. Lots of guns.

  24. cityemployee says:

    This ruling is proof that not only the President and his administration is blessed but highly favored. I know I will get some flack for this, but when GOD has decided what his plan is it will go forth in spite of what obstruction men may try to do.

  25. Michael Muller says:

    It does? Oh my.

    MM

    P.S. Be careful what you wish for.

  26. TJ says:

    From my email inbox for you edification ;-):

    Asheville Tea Party Statement Regarding Supreme Court Decision

    The 2700 page ObamaCare monstrosity will add $17 trillion in unfunded mandates. The cost is more than twice the unfunded obligations for Social Security. It adds further to our debt burden when we are currently borrowing forty cents out of every dollar we spend. If not repealed, it will cause every American person鈥檚 health costs to massively rise and it expands the power and overreach of the federal bureaucracy into our lives. It puts nameless, faceless, unelected IRS agents in charge of health care decisions. It is already creating a shortage of doctors which means rationing. It damages our economy and is the antithesis of what our country was founded upon 鈥 personal property rights and free market principles. It鈥檚 the King imposing taxes upon his servants at his whim! It is the biggest power grad in our history.

    The Supreme Court decision outlines how the courts will rule on the health care law. The Court did not decide if the law is good American policy. The Supreme Court redefined a provision of the law that declares a mandate to be a tax, a tax that will increase each year without your consent. The law makes clear there are limits to the power of Washington to act under the Commerce Clause. However, the Court gave power to the big spenders to impose a tax on the American people while pretending they are not. The mandate remains a mandate. It demands that Americans purchase a product they do not wish to purchase. Think about that when we celebrate the birth of our nation this week. Remember 鈥 鈥楾axation without representation is tyranny.鈥

    Do we need health care reform? Yes, but reform based upon free market choices where there is choice, access, and lower costs. If we want the intrusive government out of our lives, Americans need to get back to controlling our own health care.

    What can you do: Volunteer to stand at the polls. Phone bank. Put up signs. Talk to your neighbors. Take them to the polls. Elections matter. The July 17th primary-run off matters. November matters. The Court isn鈥檛 the solution. Changing leadership is. Presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney said today,
    “I disagree with the Supreme Court’s decision and I agree with the dissent. What the court did not do on its last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president of the United States, and that is I will act to repeal ObamaCare.”

    Let鈥檚 hold him to that. But, a President can鈥檛 do it by executive authority alone. We need leadership change in the Senate and more constitutional conservatives in the House. We need new representatives in Raleigh dedicated to states rights and nullification who will stand up and prevent onerous federal mandates thurst upon us. We need YOU to get off the couch and out of your comfort zone 鈥 now! Voters have the opportunity to send a clear message to Washington. This decision is a call to action. Between now and election day, Asheville Tea Party will be working to further educate the public regarding our Constitutional heritage and what made this country great. Our PAC will be working hard to elect those candidates who have demonstrated in word and deed that they will protect and defend those Constitutional principles they swore to uphold.

    Jane Bilello
    Chair: Asheville Tea Party/PAC

    Vetted: a term I heard for the first time this year (told you I was new to politics)…I finally got what it means.

    It seems the same idea as getting a dog neutered. Supposedly, it keeps them under control. If they don’t, then, what does the Tea Party do to them? Euthanize?

  27. RHS says:

    Single payer or a public option would have been preferable, but politics is the art of the possible and neither of those were politically doable. The Affordable Healthcare Act was, for all its flaws, the best thing that could pass. It isn’t prefect but it is a step in the right direction.

  28. trifecta says:

    Single payer is the conservative option. That is why you will never see the Tories in England try to get rid of it. In fact, the conservative parties in first world countries do not want to get rid of universal coverage, save for the ones in this country who oppose it.

    It’s more efficient and business friendly. Our american companies are tied to the historical mistake of tying employment to insurance. Our companies compete against businesses in other countries where the average cost per person is 2-3 times less per person. That extra bit we spend adds cost to the products they sell.

    But then again, maybe Sarah Palin is right when she says, “ooga booga, palling around w/ death panelists doncha know *wink*”

  29. shadmarsh says:

    Sarah Palin ought’a shampoo my crotch…sorry, I’ve been imbibing.

  30. cityemployee says:

    @Michael Muller, I wanted to clarify something you posted on facebook about “generous” teachers pensions, teachers and state employees contribute to the same retirement system with the same contribution levels. At age 50 and with 20 years of service State Employees are eligible for retirement, law enforcement is set at 20 years because it is high risk both physically and mentally, the hitch for non law enforcement is a 50% penalty and we have to pay for our own health insurance. Virtually no one takes this option, the only ones who do is because of serious illness or having to move with a spouse out of state. At 30 years of service we are eligible for full retirement and that is calculated at roughly 80% of the four highest years of pay. We get to keep our individual health insurance for free once we have 25 years of service until 65 when Medicare becomes our primary provider and the State Health plan becomes our supplemental. I enjoy being an educator, the profession has its challenges, most of which begins at home, I have never showed up because of the generous check. If parents, administrators, commentators and politicians would listen to those who are in the classroom we would see a much better educational system in NC.

  31. Doug Gibson says:

    Question number one for anybody running for governor or the state legislature this year:

    “Will you vote to fund the Medicaid expansion in North Carolina?”

    I think we can all guess how our local Democrats would answer that question. So – does anyone know where these folks stand on this issue?

    Pat McCrory
    Tim Moffitt
    Nathan Ramsey
    R.L. Clark
    Tom Apodaca

    I know we do a lot of doom and gloom around here, and it’s fun to report the insane crap that some Republican lawmakers put into their bills. But occasionally sanity prevails, so I’m genuinely curious.