Jun
23

Gov. Perdue Vetoes Voter ID Bill

By

From WRAL:

RALEIGH, N.C. — Gov. Beverly Perdue on Thursday vetoed a controversial proposal to require voters to present photo identification before casting their ballots.

From the WRAL blog:

Supporters of House Bill 351 argued it would restore voters’ confidence that their vote is secure. But critics pointed out that voter fraud is rarer than being struck by lightning, calling the bill “a solution in search of a problem.”

Oh, there’s a problem, all right. Too many people voting — for Democrats.


Comments

  1. Mister Smug says:

    Not really sure where the problem with this bill lies. I read that it supposedly will discourage blacks and the elderly from voting. How, pray tell, will it specifically discriminate against those two demographics? Not that this scenario would likely happen, but what’s to stop someone from going to my precinct, claiming they are me and casting a vote in my name? I’m all for increasing access to the polls (early voting, etc.), but I don’t really see how this limits that. Do people without state-issued ID cards constitute a large voting bloc?

    Thumb up 2

  2. Andrew Dahm says:

    Smug, Democrats are for small, limited government, and this is just another cut-benefits-for-old-people-and-kids and spend Republican porker, a solution in search of a problem, as they say. It’ll cost several million dollars, too.

    Not at all coincidentally, Republicans are unstinting in their largesse for initiatives that make voting – a constitutionally guaranteed right – into more of a privilege. To vote in North Carolina, if you’re eighty, in a nursing home and haven’t driven for years, now requires an extra trip to the Board of Elections or DMV to get an ID card made. Oh, and that’s EVERY election. ID cards expire, and our big-government minders have their standards.

    The real problem, of course, is that the Republican Party is ideologically and demographically dead, and with the head in the tail and all, somebody’s going to get hurt with all the cadaver’s flailing around in the bottom of the boat there.

    Thumb up 9

  3. Tom Buckner says:

    “supposedly will discourage blacks and the elderly from voting”?

    That’s what it’s built to do.

    Don’t be obtuse.

    Thumb up 5

  4. Anybody know if an override vote is likely or possible?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  5. Mister Smug says:

    I’m not obtuse, Tom. Can you please provide some proof of how this bill would accomplish what you say it would besides the tired and simplistic “Republicans are bad” argument? At least Andrew was civil, but he also didn’t address how this bill specifically targets blacks.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  6. Andrew Dahm says:

    Smug, I think there’s every bit as much proof that the measure is designed to suppress voter turnout and restrict suffrage as there is evidence of voter fraud in North Carolina elections. If Tom’s assertion is plucked from his nethers, that’s exactly where this bill came from.

    Rhetorically, you’re asking me to prove a negative, when the proper question to be asked of legislators restricting voting rights is, “prove there’s a fire to put out.”

    Thumb up 8

  7. Tom Sullivan says:

    Indeed, the burden of proof lies with supporters of the bill to demonstrate why we should inconvenience hundreds of thousands and spend millions to solve a nonexistent problem.

    Thumb up 12

  8. NW says:

    “Smug, Democrats are for small, limited government,”

    Bwaaahaaahhaaahahahahahh!!!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2

  9. Jim Jenkins says:

    I had lunch the other day with a native Asheville woman who just turned 97. She has been a local activist and booster her entire life and has voted in every election since she has been eligible. We were discussing this bill and she mentioned that she hasn’t had a valid ID in years since she gave up driving. Spending a couple of hours standing in line at the DMV isn’t a big deal?

    Thumb up 8

  10. NW says:

    @ Jim,
    Under this bill the BOE is required to issue voter ID’s at no charge to the individual. So, the answer to your question is NO it’s not a big deal because she doesn’t have to stand in line at the DMV for hours.

    Thumb up 3

  11. Andrew Dahm says:

    No, really, when it comes to individuals, the Dems are the best bet, small-government-wise. Republicans are all for photo ID’s to so much as pass gas, script conversations between women and their doctors, and tell you whose bed you can sleep in tonight.

    I’ll grant you, when it comes to limited-liability corporations, the Republicans are mighty damn permissive, but I do not happen to be one of those.

    It’s a great country, though, and it’ll all come out in the wash – provided people are allowed to vote.

    Thumb up 14

  12. Tom Buckner says:

    I used the word “obtuse” as a reference to the movie Shawshank Redemption, in which the prison warden (Bob Gunton) affects not to understand how new evidence might exonerate a prisoner (Tim Robbins). Robbins asks, “How can you be so obtuse,” and then, with horror: “Unless it’s on purpose.”

    Point being, I don’t want to waste time explaining how GOP measures designed… *designed*… to discourage voting… might discourage voting. If you gave half a fecal pellet you could logic it out for yourself. I’m working under the assumption that you do not give said moiety of a bolus.

    Republicans ARE bad. It’s not my fault they’re bad. That was their decision. Yet, somehow, it’s “rude” to speak such obvious truths.

    Thumb up 9

  13. Jim Jenkins says:

    NW: This is good news. They come to your home and take your picture?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  14. Robert Danos says:

    Admin:

    Re: the above “Republicans ARE bad.”

    I would like to state that Tom Buckner is an ass, but I do know if the comments policy allow for me (as one of the 50 million some odd Republicans) allow me to respond to being called “bad” by calling the poster an “ass”. Please advise.

    I hope it is allowed because when a poster shrinks political dialogue down to such a school age level of “me good, you bad”, then as a person who does not see himself as bad, I would like to call a spade a spade – or in this case an ass.

    I know several Republicans besides myself (not all 50M) who I don’t think are bad. Many of us actually believe that our ideas will best promote many of the same societal goals that many of the liberals on this blog talk about. We just happen to see the means differently.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  15. Robert Danos says:

    On the topic itself, from the 20 years I’ve worked in politics, I have tended to agree with the conclusions of these guys and have read some of the studies they cite: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/01/13/1975976/be-skeptical-of-both-sides-in.html

    I came here from Louisiana where voter id has long been required and where the % of African-American turnout routinely surpasses that here in NC, with no voter id required.

    Thumb up 6

  16. Tom Sullivan says:

    Having read the Observer article, I return to my original point. If studies show that fraud is all but non-existent, and claims for and against the effects of implementing voter ID are dubious, The onus is on the supporters of the bill to demonstrate why we should inconvenience hundreds of thousands and spend millions doing it for no good reason.

    Thumb up 8

  17. Andrew Dahm says:

    Mr. Danos, I can’t speak for Mr. Sullivan’s resemblance to an ass per se, notwithstanding our entire species general, family likeness to same, but feel constrained to mention that one particular political party – which, as you say, may not be composed of bad people – does, in fact, contain people who:

    Carry guns to political rallies, insist that the President of the United states was not born in the United States, insist that the President of the United States is a secret Muslim, insist that the government is going to establish death panels and kill people, assert that socialism isn’t something this country has been doing since it established its first fire department, maintain that carbon dioxide emissions are unrelated to climate change despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and I really could go on and on and on.

    In all honesty, ask yourself this: Where does Tom’s (possible) misstatement come from, and where does the ninety-thousand cubic feet of Republican mendacity come from?

    Righteous anger. Fear and hate. Respectively.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  18. Tom Buckner says:

    No, Tom Sullivan is not the ass, Tom Buckner is the ass. I am Tom Buckner and I approved this message.

    But being polite to the destroyers of the world’s hope is a far graver offense. I recently read a bit of an Keith Olbermann interview, and he mentioned getting in hot water for donating to three Democratic candidates, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Olbermann said nobody bothered to ask him why he donated to those particular three. It was because he’d heard they were having to spend major money on bodyguards, because of constant credible threats, which pissed him off, and he decided to help defray their costs.

    Gee. Which party loves to carry guns and threaten opposing candidates? The party that does not believe in true democracy.

    P.S.: Democrats are definitely better than Republicans, just as herpes is better than Ebola. But neither one of them is fit to clean toilets for the New Deal Democrats who saved America from both bankers and Nazis.

    Thumb up 6

  19. TJ says:

    “Republicans ARE bad. It’s not my fault they’re bad. That was their decision. Yet, somehow, it’s “rude” to speak such obvious truths.”

    My (for now) favorite quote and tagline:

    “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”- George Orwell.

    So, go ahead, speak the truth. People will do with it what they may, but no amount of twisting and winding can alter the physics involved, and how it manifests when people define themselves. And people are defined by their actions, not their words.

    “But neither one of them is fit to clean toilets for the New Deal Democrats who saved America from both bankers and { Nazis.” }

    Uh-oh ;-)

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  20. Robert Danos says:

    @ Tom Sullivan “The onus is on the supporters of the bill to demonstrate why we should inconvenience hundreds of thousands and spend millions doing it for no good reason.”

    As I said, I agree with most of the article above that both extremes of the voter id argument are probably off base. I don’t think voter fraud is rampant and I also don’t believe that voter id suppresses turnout. Again, both ideas are supported by the available research.

    For me the turning point in why I personally have come to back voter id in NC is that 70%+ of voters here now support it, suggesting to me that the 2nd most common argument in favor of it, voter faith, has become stronger in the last 10 years for reasons that could take up a swimming pool of debate.

    The current bill, provides id at the BOE for free, may make that 70% more confident in the system and – again based on research, there is no real evidence in any of the 29 other states that already require voter id that it has suppressed turnout.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  21. Robert Danos says:

    As for my desire to call the “other Tom” an ass, I am still waiting pending Admin counsel. If however, they say that I can not call him an ass as an individual because he only called me bad by group association then I will fall back and simply call all Toms’ asses. Then I will apologize to all of the other Tom’s I encounter to assure them that I didn’t really mean ALL Tom’s.

    @ Tom Buckner “Which party loves to carry guns and threaten opposing candidates?”

    Well, the answer, Tom is that all parties have some asses that are off their rockers and/or are organized by some sub-humans to “support” their cause.

    Is it your fantasy that the Democratic party is free from that stain? Or that Republican candidates are less likely to get death threats? Both are nonsense.

    Thumb up 4

  22. Tom Sullivan says:

    Any vote suppression effect of photo ID laws is not just statistics, but Americans with constitutional rights — whatever their ethnicity. When research supports “a very small decrease in voter turnout,” one might ask, compared to what?

    The Observer article cites 18 cases of “double-voting” in North Carolina in 2008. The Columbia researcher also cited in the Observer article found 95 federal indictments for voting-related crimes brought nationwide between October 2002 and September 2005. Only 40 involved actual voters, with only 26 convictions. One was for registration fraud. Twenty were ineligible: 15 felons, and FIVE for multiple voting. The researcher found no cases of voter impersonation fraud, and the [pro-ID] witness testifying before Congress on the same panel could cite no cases of people impersonating the dead or someone else at the polls, only a few rare cases involving absentee ballots (those don’t involve photo voter ID).

    In 2004, 122 million Americans voted. So when studies cite “a very small decrease in voter turnout,” they’re looking for statistical significance in a sample of 122 million Americans. Compared to 122 million, the decrease might be small, insignificant even, but you can be sure the suppression effect is significantly larger than FORTY.

    North Carolina’s newly minted GOP majority is advocating using a sledgehammer to slaughter an ant. Why?

    So one more time, in the middle of a state budget crisis that is putting tens of thousands across North Carolina out of their jobs, why should North Carolina spend millions of scarce taxpayer dollars, on a new government program, that will inconvenience an estimated hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians, and that does essentially nothing?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 5

  23. Andrew Dahm says:

    Wrong Tom. A thousand pardons.

    I have to say that the party currently accusing the other party of being secret muslim socialists who hate America is getting ready to repudiate debts they had a hand in incurring and somehow this is patriotic and honorable? If the moderator will allow it, WTF?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  24. Robert Danos says:

    @ Tom Sullivan “…why should North Carolina spend millions of scarce taxpayer dollars…”

    Even the “researchers” who came up with those numbers can’t back them up, see below. The only person in authority tossing the “millions” number around is Dale Bartlett, the appointed head of the NCSBOE and he can’t cite a source for that vague guess.

    http://truthordarenc.com/2011/06/10/voter-id-costs-inflated-in-report-head-of-division-responsible-resigns/

    The education costs will be for one cycle. Beyond that the actual projected costs in the research comes nowhere close to supporting the “millions” being tossed around.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  25. Tom Sullivan says:

    So now you’re quibbling over the cost of using a sledgehammer to slaughter an ant.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  26. TJ says:

    ” Twenty were ineligible: 15 felons”

    Well, one could argue that perhaps the felons were trying to redeem themselves by trying to contribute in a positive way to the society they previously victimized.

    Of course, that would depend upon what they were voting for, I suppose. ;-)

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  27. Tom Buckner says:

    Isn’t assault a felony?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2

  28. TJ says:

    “Justice Prosser had called Justice Abrahamson a “total bitch” and threatened to “destroy” her.”

    Well, officials cannot “confirm nor deny.” The judge said the same thing when asked about it. Hey, if we get arrested, we can get off by saying we cannot “confirm nor deny” whatever we’re accused of??

    So, let’s see…. physical assault, verbal assault, and he gets to still be a judge?! Well, I guess that’s okay, because no one confirmed or denied it.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  29. TJ says:

    “Mr. Danos, I can’t speak for Mr. Sullivan’s resemblance to an ass per se”

    Well, either that, or an elephant. Isn’t it just a matter of which party he claims? ;-)

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  30. TJ says:

    “Many of us actually believe that our ideas will best promote many of the same societal goals that many of the liberals on this blog talk about. We just happen to see the means differently.”

    So – would this be an example of the parental unit saying, “I know what’s best for you,” or “why can’t you just do what I say?!”, or, “If you’d only listen!”

    So, in the end, we all “get what we want,” if only we agree to do it the “right way?” (no pun intended, truly).

    Somehow, I prefer to not give up my “rights,” to supposedly gain something in the end. I am not of the mindset that the end justifies the means.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  31. TJ says:

    “As for my desire to call the “other Tom” an ass”

    “that I can not call him an ass as an individual”

    “I will fall back and simply call all Toms’ asses”

    “Well, the answer, Tom is that all parties have some asses that are off their rockers”

    Wow! I can’t figure out if this is your new favorite word, if you just discovered it and it’s a delayed adolescent reaction to the sound of it, or some form of Tourette’s (and I know someone with Tourette’s, so, no, I’m NOT mocking the illness) that manifests in that one word.

    For whatever reason, it’s just odd you have a compulsion to repeat it so much in one short post. Do you think we don’t get the point you’re trying to make? Or, maybe, just one more time will do it.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  32. TJ says:

    “No, Tom Sullivan is not the ass, Tom Buckner is the ass. I am Tom Buckner and I approved this message.”

    ;-)

    There, now. See what you’ve done? Well, at least we know it’s approved… ;-). Gotta love those candidate ads…. wait a minute… why aren’t you running for SOMETHING?!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  33. Tom Buckner says:

    TJ, you’re getting all overwrought. Why don’t you sit down, have some chamomile tea, and maybe watch a soothing cartoon.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  34. TJ says:

    Well, Tom, I think it was your link to the article about the judge that pushed me over the edge last night.
    ;-)
    After 4 1/2 hours of sleep, I feel better now, thank you. Thanks for the cartoon link, but don’t you think Mr. Danos might find them more his liking? I’ll take the tea, though.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  35. mule says:

    Let’s stop beating around the bush here…Republicans are bad. No sane, decent, informed person would have anything to do with these pigs.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  36. TJ says:

    ” No sane, decent, informed person would have anything to do with these pigs.”

    WWEeeelll… if you have NOTHING to do with them, how can you ever hope to have any kind of influence that might help them see the error of their ways?

    Okay, but seriously, I disagree with many things about politics in general. I guess I believe that kind of thinking is no better than what I have encountered the “us vs. them” mentality in churches. In the end, no one seems to be able to answer how if they become so insular, how to “reach out” to the very people they would like to see start to think differently, and how that kind of thinking prevents a sort of inbreeding from occurring.

    My friends share similar thinking, but some of my best friends are the very ones whom challenge my thinking and are accepting of me, regardless of whether they agree with me or not. That said, I DON’T associate with those I find extremely offensive in how they treat others in life.

    If sane, decent and informed people refuse to associate, then how are they ever to become sane, decent and informed?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  37. Tom Buckner says:

    “If sane, decent and informed people refuse to associate, then how are they ever to become sane, decent and informed?”

    It’s a wee conundrum, but here’s an analogy:
    The police arrive at a bank where robbers have taken hostages. Do the police talk to the robbers? Sure they do. What they don’t do is let the robbers walk away scot-free.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 5

  38. TJ says:

    “What they don’t do is let the robbers walk away scot-free.”

    Okay, I agree with that. I’m not saying let the robbers run the place. Or, in this case, the R’s. However, meaningful discussion needs to take place to bring about real change. I find that meaningful discussions take place less often than people like to think, since most conversations include an agenda and goal, rather than an open dialogue where both people say what needs to be said to see where the real problem lies.

    Even when it seems blatantly obvious where the error lies, i.e., cutting funding for a sound educational system, the “other side” is sure to have their sights elsewhere.

    So, yes, Tom, it IS a conundrum, but I would contend it is slightly larger than “wee.”

    BTW, the police also don’t usually rush in, both barrels firing. That is the equivalent of some conversations I have heard in politics. Fortunately, I don’t find that here on ScruHoo, or the one and only blog I visit regularly would be off my list, too. But, you guys are fun. ;-).
    When I “grow up,” I wanna be a hooligan, too. And my kids are already watching ;-)

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  39. mule says:

    Okay, okay…I suppose you guys do have a point; one has little other option than to at least negotiate with these terrorists. At least until the hostages are released.

    At which point, I say we reintroduce these bastards to the concept of “hell”.

    I’m sorry if this offends anyone’s liberal sensibilities, but I have no desire whatsoever to coexist with fascist scum; it’s high time that these pigs face the consequences.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  40. TJ says:

    “At which point, I say we reintroduce these bastards to the concept of “hell”.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think they would recognize it if it slapped them in the face. After all, many of them are confronted with “hell” at least one day out of the week, while the part of society affected by their decisions live in it every day.

    “I’m sorry if this offends anyone’s liberal sensibilities, but I have no desire whatsoever to coexist with fascist scum ”

    Doesn’t offend me. I’m all about people facing the consequences of their choices/actions. After all, I’m trained as a therapist ;-)

    For some of those guys, though, maybe a little shock therapy would make more of an impact.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  41. Tom Buckner says:

    Facing consequences is exactly what went missing. We all know Bush and Cheney and quite a few of their minions committed serious crimes. There’s a reason none of them leave the country much! They dare not set foot in Europe.

    However, the failure to punish serious crimes goes back decades. Nixon, by dint of the Ford pardon, managed to sweep a lot of his misdeeds under the carpet and in time become rehabilitated by the conservative propagandists; Reagan managed to sweep just as many crimes under the carpet, buy off the corporate media with relaxed ownership rules and eventually be canonized as Saint Ronald by the same corporate media. If Reagan had been caught for some of the things he did, there’d probably have been no Bush presidents, no Bush Supreme Corporate Courts, and so on. All along, the conservatives used the War On Some Drugs to weaken the Bill of Rights until the War On Some Terror could finish it off. All along, America was ruled under the Golden Rule: He who has the gold stays out of jail.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  42. TJ says:

    “All along, America was ruled under the Golden Rule: He who has the gold stays out of jail.”

    That, and: If we can keep America in a state of trauma, they’ll be so busy reacting to post-traumatic stress, that they will not see things clearly, and we can pretty much do what we want and convince them they just don’t “understand.” Thus, the drugs, terrorists, and poverty and violence.

    Then, the “man” comes to save and we’re supposed to believe it’s for our “own good,” be eternally grateful, and not complain about all the loss of rights along the way.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2