Jun
14

Flag Day Open Thread

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Flag Day is upon us. Hoist the colors!


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Categories : Open Thread

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  1. Robert Danos says:

    watching this story with high interest: http://wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wlos_vid_4677.shtml

    The vile comments directed at Michael Muller and others took this “hoax” far beyond any decent attempt at parody.

    It is also my bet that if/when the creator is discovered, it will not have come from anyone on the Democratic “side”.

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  2. barry says:

    The AC-T story says the tweets were sent from a URTV computer, after business hours. Who had keys to the URTV building in November of last year?

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  3. Diogenes says:

    And interesting exchange of comments is going on over at Ashevegas about dog walking, the temperament of the warden, and entitlement–of the homeowners who “own” the private park, and/or those dog walkers who get thrown out for not paying a $50 fee.

    IMO, this might be an Asheville annexation I could support!

    http://ashvegas.squarespace.com/

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  4. randallt says:

    It’s a flag day birthday!

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  5. barry says:

    AC-T is now reporting that the fake twitter person has confessed and apologized to Jeff Miller, and he has accepted the apology and decided to drop any charges. Why?

    “Miller, a Republican, declined to identify the person, but he did say the offender was not affiliated with the left side of the political spectrum.”

    Oh, when it was imagined that this was some leftie trying to sabotage your campaign, it was “I intend to press charges and file a lawsuit…”. But now that it turns out it’s a fellow right-winger urging people with AIDS to crawl into a hole and die, well, “let’s just forget the whole thing…”

    Stunning, horrifying hypocrisy.

    Mr. Jeff Miller: Tell us who was behind this outrageous hate speech, or you are a direct participant for covering up his identity.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  6. Dixiegirlz says:

    Only two or three people had those keys, and the code for the burglar alarm. The only computers in the building that had internet access were used by the staff and ED. All editing computers had a block to the internet. So access was through was a staff computer.

    Dan Eichenbaum (sp?) did have URTV part time employee (Brian Umbarger) on his payroll for 13 weeks @ $500.00 a week. But according to the Hendersonville newspaper that twitter account was set up in May 2010…long before Umbarger started working at URTV.

    Here’s a link to the vile tweets. http://twitter.com/#!/jeffmiller2012

    Barry I told you before, bad stuff was going on @ URTV…this is the tip of a very large iceburg.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 2

  7. TJ says:

    “But now that it turns out it’s a fellow right-winger urging people with AIDS to crawl into a hole and die, well, “let’s just forget the whole thing…””

    That IS interesting, but not surprising. It’s all well and good to jump all over someone you disagree with and don’t like, and hopefully don’t associate with. It’s quite another when it is a “family” member that you have to see every holiday, etc.

    And-of course- he makes himself look good by being so “forgiving” – ::::ppphhht::::

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  8. barry says:

    According to commentors on AC-T, the person pretending to be Jeff Miller is Asheville real estate broker Scott Raines. Here he is confirming that? (joke)

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  9. Robert Danos says:

    “It is also my bet that if/when the creator is discovered, it will not have come from anyone on the Democratic “side”.”

    Ok, I know I shouldn’t quote myself to say I told you so, but…..

    If it wasn’t from the left, then what group of mongrels that don’t much care for Miller have had the run of URTV? This ain’t rocket science folks.

    @barry “Mr. Jeff Miller: Tell us who was behind this outrageous hate speech, or you are a direct participant for covering up his identity.”

    No one near Jeff, myself included, ever had the slightest theory that it was some “leftie”. None. Never.

    You may not like Jeff’s politics but he is one of the most decent and honorable men you will ever meet. If Jeff has accepted this person’s apology and says he won’t name him, he won’t.

    I can also tell you that when he says that they talked for 90 minutes, that will be accurate and that he would also not have decided to drop charges unless the person apologizes to each twitter user on that account that was attacked.

    Those are the people that were in some cases hurt by some of the hate speech on there. In other cases, some of the posters right here on SH followed the feed knowing full well it wasn’t real and apparently found it entertaining. A vulgar sideshow only goes on if a crowd stops to watch.

    @TJ This is no “family” affair.
    No one near Jeff, myself included, ever had the slightest theory that it was some “leftie”. None. Never.

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  10. shadmarsh says:

    Meh…so much split milk if you ask me.

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  11. TJ says:

    “I can also tell you that when he says that they talked for 90 minutes, that will be accurate and that he would also not have decided to drop charges unless the person apologizes to each twitter user on that account that was attacked”

    Personally, I don’t twit, tweet, suck face or any such thing, but from what I gather, running after every twitter user may take quite a bit of time. Maybe that will be his “community service” hours, if it were to ever get to court ;-).

    “A vulgar sideshow only goes on if a crowd stops to watch.”

    Sorry to hear it, if it does include people here. However, there is a difference between being a bystander and an observer. There’s those who slow down at every car crash to see if they can see a body. Then there’s those who slow down and look to see if anyone needs help. Hopefully, anyone here would be observing for accountability purposes.

    “@TJ This is no “family” affair.
    No one near Jeff, myself included, ever had the slightest theory that it was some “leftie”. None. Never.”

    Glad to hear it. However, I am fully aware that someone from either “side” is capable of such things. Both parties claim to have standards and ethics, however, we all know that ethics only go as far as any individual takes them…and unethical behavior is not limited by party, race, gender, religion, economic status, etc.

    Equally, integrity is possible on both sides, if they so choose.

    Integrity: Doing the right thing when no one’s watching (and the internet gives a false sense of anonymity).

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  12. Dixiegirlz says:

    So far no affirmation from Thunder or MM to my question, “Have you been apologized to?”

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  13. barry says:

    No one near Jeff, myself included, ever had the slightest theory that it was some “leftie”. None. Never

    And yet that will be the perception, now that Mr. Miller has decided to cover for the person on whom he was previously threatening prosecution and legal action.

    If Mr. Miller hadn’t made this a story by calling the police, participating in TV and print news stories, threatening criminal and civil prosecution, publicizing the hate speech committed by this person, it would have quietly disappeared. But because he DID draw attention to it, we have a right to know who is spewing hate speech in our community.

    Mr. Miller isn’t the only wounded party in this – just because he had a long heart-to-heart with the guy, and he turns out to not be “associated with the left” as he said, he doesn’t get to tell the rest of us, “Nothing to see here.”

    Interestingly, the main reason cited by Mr. Miller in the AC-T story for why he won’t release the name of this person, is:

    “To pursue this would end his chance for a job around here, and they are having a tough time already”.

    One of the more extended back & forths in the twitter account is between the fake Jeff Miller and David Forbes at the XPress. Forbes had tweeted on a story out of Colorado, where a hedge fund manager committed hit & run, almost killing a cyclist, yet the prosecutor dropped the charges, citing the fact that it would “have some pretty serious job implications” for the millionaire hedge fund manager.

    The fake Jeff Miller said “we shouldnt punish contributing members of the community. the biker should be punished for not using a car.”

    I want to know who in this community thinks that is funny.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  14. TJ says:

    “I want to know who in this community thinks that is funny.”

    I do. In the crazy sense when using that word. Or, as in, funny business. Otherwise, it’s actually sick, in the literal sense of the word, as well as figurative.

    So, let’s just go down to the jails and prisons and find out whom was working before they were incarcerated (as “contributing” members of our society) and let them go, since it’s creating a hardship on them… as us, actually, paying their bills AND supporting services their families now need.

    Wow! That’s the lamest excuse I have ever heard. And, I worked in forensic mental health, and heard some doozies throughout the years.

    ” where a hedge fund manager committed hit & run, almost killing a cyclist, yet the prosecutor dropped the charges, citing the fact that it would “have some pretty serious job implications” for the millionaire hedge fund manager.”

    Wow!

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  15. barry says:

    Someone claiming to be the fake Jeff Miller posted an apology on a new twitter account, @JeffMiller2011:

    “As the person responsible for the @JeffMiller2012 account I would like to issue a public apology for anyone hurt or offended by my actions. The tweets that I made were not only in bad taste but demonstrate incredibly bad judgment, for which I am truly and deeply sorry. I have personally apologized to Jeff Miller and he has graciously accepted my apology.”

    Is this enough for anybody? I want to know who is spewing anti-gay hate speech in this town.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  16. Robert Danos says:

    @barry “And yet that will be the perception, now that Mr. Miller has decided to cover for the person on whom he was previously threatening prosecution and legal action.”

    That is one of the many things I admire about him. He has decided the right thing to do and perception in not relevant. He decided to believe that the guy was truly sorry, would make amends, and that this example would deter others from doing this to anyone else.

    It is a bit funny in that he chose to tell the first reporter that it wasn’t “from the left” because the reporter managed to convince him that most people were assuming this was another case of left v. right and Jeff didn’t want to leave that out there. Because this has 100% to do with other issues and zip to do with policy or anything to do with the spectrum of politics.

    He will not be concerned if some have the “perception” that he had the reasons you suggest.

    “If Mr. Miller hadn’t made this a story by calling the police, participating in TV and print news stories, threatening criminal and civil prosecution, publicizing the hate speech committed by this person, it would have quietly disappeared. But because he DID draw attention to it, we have a right to know who is spewing hate speech in our community.”

    This is backwards logic. You can’t want hate speech to stop and want it to “quietly disappear” at the same time. He called it out in a way guaranteed to let the sunshine do its work. Having discussed this with him beforehand, I think it has worked out very well to deter other would be anonymous haters. http://thesophist.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/sunlight-is-the-best-disinfectant/

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  17. barry says:

    This is backwards logic. You can’t want hate speech to stop and want it to “quietly disappear” at the same time.

    I never said I wanted it to quietly disappear. I said that if Mr. Miller hadn’t drawn attention to it, this episode would have been forgotten, since it happened for such a brief period so long ago, and was only noticed by the relatively few people who followed this twitter account. But he went on the TV and in the newspaper, and drew attention to the awful things said to and about others. After dragging it out into the public square, involving others, he can’t just claim this is now his to deal with privately.

    He called it out in a way guaranteed to let the sunshine do its work.

    …to his satisfaction, not to anyone elses. There was no “sunshine” here. Does Michael Muller get a face-to-face apology? What about thunderpig, timpeck, or the others publicly insulted by this guy? What about every gay person in town who this person said publicly they were going to hell? What about the Arab-Americans he called sand n*****s? This is a hateful, abusive person who insulted more than just Jeff Miller. But Jeff Miller gets his apology, and declares the issue closed?

    He’s covering for somebody who needs to have some consequences for his awful behavior.

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  18. Dixiegirlz says:

    Barry, you said it! Consequences are a bitch. At this point Mr. Miller appears to be enabling dispicable behavior.

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  19. barry says:

    This is one of the ways racist, misogynist, homophobic behavior is perpetuated. Get caught crossing the line, confess and seek ‘forgiveness’ from some upstanding citizen (who was never the real target), and he’ll run interference for you.

    Has everyone read these tweets?

    “abortion is needed to control over population”
    “people with aids need to find a corner, shrivel up, and die”
    “we shouldnt punish contributing members of the community. the biker should be punished for not using a car.”
    “lets hope not. butt pirates deserve to rot and burn in hades”
    “thats not what your girl said when i was giving her the honor air deep thrust last night”
    “im sure. she choked it down while i yell “how you my honor air now bitch?”"
    “only in asheville can a homophobe like me take a big one straight in the hairy eye on election day”
    “i started honor air so i hope they never allow ass raiders in the army”
    “Poo Brownies. Yum. Where can I order a batch to send to my friend Heath? Extra special delivery.”
    “Gay people are going to hell.”
    “dont stop there ban all the sand n(*****) terrorists from flights to the us too” (censorship mine)

    These comments were not aimed at Jeff Miller. Anybody with a brain figured out it was a joke after one or two comments. This person spread hate under the cover of Jeff Millers name, and for some reason Jeff Miller continues to cover for him.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 3

  20. Michael Muller says:

    Thanks to everyone for your concern and support.

    So you know, Jeff Miller called me many months ago after he was made aware of the fake Twitter account to express his disgust with the things that were said and to apologize to me.

    Also know that Jeff came to the conclusion not to pursue the matter further (or reveal the name of the person involved) for the right reasons and not out of any partisan considerations. I know Jeff and admire his integrity and good heart; he would have done the same thing regardless of the person’s party affiliation.

    I believe, too, that the young man involved is genuinely contrite. He’s apologized to me personally and taken proactive steps to set things right.

    We all make mistakes, and our passions can sometimes manifest themselves in ways that we later regret. Lord knows that I’ve done and said things in “campaign mode” that I later regretted because I acted before I properly thought things through. And I don’t believe that this was a case of “hate speech,” despite the incendiary language. It was a juvenile and unsuccessful attempt at parody.

    I’d ask that we not make something more of this than it is — and to resist the temptation to try to score our own political points. It’s time to move on.

    Thanks,
    Michael Muller

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 4

  21. Dixiegirlz says:

    It is particularly appalling that this type of hate speech was done by someone on salaried staff at URTV. Receiving a fairly good salary with all benefits. On City owned computers, County provided internet access, and salary paid for by the public in Buncombe County…including gays, and people who are out in the county and are “salt of the earth country folk.” whom the impersonator refers to as “inbred hillbillies.”

    Had Mr. Miller not brought this to the forefront…most of us would be totally unaware….but he did. Now it’s been brought to our attention… splashed across the local headlines and on the local TV news. So now we’re to fuggittaboutit? We’re paying good money for this to go on??? We cannot condone this type of behavior paid for by the public trust.

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  22. TJ says:

    ” You can’t want hate speech to stop and want it to “quietly disappear” at the same time. ”

    I think the point is that it SHOULDN’T “quietly disappear.”

    “I’d ask that we not make something more of this than it is — and to resist the temptation to try to score our own political points. It’s time to move on.”

    Michael, I respect your wishes. I still think there is room for discussion. Perhaps they could leave you out of it, since you feel satisfied with the outcome. What I sense here is more the outrage that someone could spew such things, then just walk away. It’s great that he is contrite. Perhaps he can use his experience and poor choice to create a space for discussion about decency, respectfulness and how to add to a more accepting attitude in a town divided between religion and basic human dignity.

    Otherwise, I’ll leave it at that.

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  23. Jason Bugg says:

    So many whiny people with so much sand in their vaginas.

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  24. Doug Gibson says:

    Me, I just want to see what the Disclaimer makes of it all. But I’m glad to hear Michael weighing in.

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  25. Jason Bugg says:

    If you want to see what the Disclaimer thinks, just find a copy of “The Onion” from a few years ago and replace things with ASheville-centric terms.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 1

  26. Dixiegirlz says:

    Nah, somebodies got sand on the brain.

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