Comments on: Have Faith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Thu, 24 May 2012 02:00:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39911 Gordon Smith Sun, 07 Mar 2010 03:18:03 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39911 Providing a path to benefits for all is what this measure does. I'm not sure which cause an advancement in civil rights will hurt. Providing a path to benefits for all is what this measure does. I’m not sure which cause an advancement in civil rights will hurt.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: SueTwo http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39906 SueTwo Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:13:18 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39906 Agreeing with everything above. But we gotta include unmarried staight couples or this thang ain't gonna fly and will in the end hurt the cause. Agreeing with everything above. But we gotta include unmarried staight couples or this thang ain’t gonna fly and will in the end hurt the cause.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: shadmarsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39886 shadmarsh Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:53:48 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39886 You can add the Rev. Shad Marsh to that list. You can add the Rev. Shad Marsh to that list.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Michael Muller http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39879 Michael Muller Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:29:31 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39879 Here are some links to radio, TV, and newspaper coverage of the news conference: <ul> <li><strong>WLOS Channel 13 (ABC):</strong> <i><a href="http://www.wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/wlos_vid_1885.shtml" rel="nofollow">City of Asheville debates domestic partner benefits</a></i></li> <li><strong>WSPA Channel 7 (CBS) Spartanburg, SC:</strong> <i><a href="http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/mar/04/8/religious-leaders-support-benefits-gay-couples-ash-ar-50125/" rel="nofollow">Religious leaders support benefits for gay couples in Asheville</a></i></li> <li><strong>Asheville Citizen-Times:</strong> <i><a href="http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100305/NEWS01/303050038" rel="nofollow">Asheville-area faith leaders speak out for gay partner benefits</a> by Joel Burgess (front page story)</i></li> <li><strong>WWNC-570 AM:</strong> <i><a href="http://www.wwnc.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122546&article=6841675" rel="nofollow">Same-sex benefits getting show of support</a> (includes video)</i></li> <li><strong>Mountain Xpress:</strong> <i><a href="http://www.mountainx.com/news/2010/faith_leaders_thank_asheville_city_council_for_gay_benefits_vote1" rel="nofollow">Faith leaders thank Asheville City Council for gay-benefits vote</a> by Jon Elliston</i></li> </ul> Thanks again to the intrepid Monroe Gilmour for providing these links. Here are some links to radio, TV, and newspaper coverage of the news conference:

Thanks again to the intrepid Monroe Gilmour for providing these links.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Bruce Mulkey http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39876 Bruce Mulkey Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:10:30 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39876 Just as ministers, rabbis, priests and other faith leaders played a large role in supporting civil rights for African American citizens in the mid-20th century, I believe they have a role to play today in attaining civil rights for our GLBT citizens. The public proclamation yesterday by community faith leaders provides us the opportunity to awaken to the essential nature of equal rights for all of our brothers and sisters. And it sends a strong message to those who would misuse the Bible to support their narrow-mindedness and justify their homophobia. I applaud the faith leaders for their willingness to step forward like this, and I applaud Gordon, Cecil, Esther and Brownie for their actions to provide greater equality for city employees with same-sex partners. Just as ministers, rabbis, priests and other faith leaders played a large role in supporting civil rights for African American citizens in the mid-20th century, I believe they have a role to play today in attaining civil rights for our GLBT citizens. The public proclamation yesterday by community faith leaders provides us the opportunity to awaken to the essential nature of equal rights for all of our brothers and sisters. And it sends a strong message to those who would misuse the Bible to support their narrow-mindedness and justify their homophobia. I applaud the faith leaders for their willingness to step forward like this, and I applaud Gordon, Cecil, Esther and Brownie for their actions to provide greater equality for city employees with same-sex partners.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Michael Muller http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39871 Michael Muller Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:18:28 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39871 David, I agree with you. Religious dogma ought to have no place in determining public policy --- but the folks who gathered and spoke yesterday were doing so as private citizens and to show their <i>personal</i> appreciation for the recent vote by the Asheville City Council. People of faith are an essential part of the fabric of our community. They deserve to be heard...and their voices yesterday were a necessary and powerful counterbalance to the hateful bile spewed by bigots like the <a href="http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/02/11/brother-bigot/" rel="nofollow">Reverend Ogden</a>. MM

David,

I agree with you. Religious dogma ought to have no place in determining public policy — but the folks who gathered and spoke yesterday were doing so as private citizens and to show their personal appreciation for the recent vote by the Asheville City Council.

People of faith are an essential part of the fabric of our community. They deserve to be heard…and their voices yesterday were a necessary and powerful counterbalance to the hateful bile spewed by bigots like the Reverend Ogden.

MM

Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

]]> By: David Cohen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39867 David Cohen Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:56:56 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39867 While I applaud these folks on their stand, and I agree with them, I'm still struck by the fact that I don't want ANYBODY "of faith" weighing in on matters of governmental policy, either for or against. Separation of church and state. Go back to your church (synagogue, cathedral,...) and let the state be! While I applaud these folks on their stand, and I agree with them, I’m still struck by the fact that I don’t want ANYBODY “of faith” weighing in on matters of governmental policy, either for or against.
Separation of church and state. Go back to your church (synagogue, cathedral,…) and let the state be!

Rate this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Michael Muller http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39849 Michael Muller Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:44:07 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39849 Nonsense, Monroe. I know for a fact that yesterday's event wouldn't have happened without your organizing ability and your many years of laying the groundwork through groups such as <a href="http://www.main.nc.us/wncceib/" rel="nofollow">Western North Carolina Citizens For An End To Institutional Bigotry</a>. It's the dedication and often unsung efforts of activists like yourself that makes any real change <i>even possible.</i> And in your own case, humility is a great part of your harm ;) So thank you again. Asheville and the people of WNC are very lucky to have you. MM Nonsense, Monroe. I know for a fact that yesterday’s event wouldn’t have happened without your organizing ability and your many years of laying the groundwork through groups such as Western North Carolina Citizens For An End To Institutional Bigotry.

It’s the dedication and often unsung efforts of activists like yourself that makes any real change even possible. And in your own case, humility is a great part of your harm ;)

So thank you again. Asheville and the people of WNC are very lucky to have you.

MM

Rate this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Monroe Gilmour http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39844 Monroe Gilmour Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:36:15 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39844 Today was, indeed, a powerful expression for love and family and fairness. The combined voices of the many faith leaders who were there sends a strong message of inclusiveness and respect to everyone in our community...and one of enthusiastic support for City Council's action. My appreciation to Michael Muller for his kind comment above about me, way overstated as it is! The News Conference was organized by People of Faith for Just Relationships, of which I am but one member. Many organizers were involved and everyone did her or his piece of it beautifully. It was fun to be part of that team. A special note of thanks goes to Rev. Joe Hoffman and everyone at First Congregational UCC. They walk their talk and inspire us all. Today was, indeed, a powerful expression for love and family and fairness. The combined voices of the many faith leaders who were there sends a strong message of inclusiveness and respect to everyone in our community…and one of enthusiastic support for City Council’s action.

My appreciation to Michael Muller for his kind comment above about me, way overstated as it is! The News Conference was organized by People of Faith for Just Relationships, of which I am but one member. Many organizers were involved and everyone did her or his piece of it beautifully. It was fun to be part of that team. A special note of thanks goes to Rev. Joe Hoffman and everyone at First Congregational UCC. They walk their talk and inspire us all.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Evelyn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39842 Evelyn Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:30:04 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39842 I notice no Roman Catholic clergy on this list. That church, well known for it's support and protection of pederasts, pedophiles, and assorted sex criminals and the institutionalized cover-up of the same, is notably silent. I notice no Roman Catholic clergy on this list.

That church, well known for it’s support and protection of pederasts, pedophiles, and assorted sex criminals and the institutionalized cover-up of the same, is notably silent.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Davyne Dial http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39838 Davyne Dial Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:01:42 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39838 Bless those forward thinking ministers. And a pox on those backward thinking ones who came out against this issue. Whether those ministers want to admit it or not, this is a civil rights issue. Interestingly the Department of Defense has addressed this rather unceremoniously by making allowances for what they call a "person with an insurable interest". A person who is financially dependent or shares common responsibilities like a mortgage, or other interest, must provide proof that they would be financially affected upon the demise. They make no mention of same sex stipulations. Dept. of Defense's position may be a useful model in this situation. <b>Person with an Insurable Interest</b> http://www.military.com/benefits/survivor-benefits/survivor-benefit-plan-explained A member who does not have a spouse or dependent child when eligible to make a program election may elect to provide coverage for a person with an insurable interest in the member. <b>The Department of Defense defines an insurable interest as “a natural person with an insurable interest who has a reasonable and lawful expectation of financial benefit from the continued life of the participating member, or any individual having a reasonable and lawful basis, founded upon the relation of parties to each other, either financial or of blood or affinity, to expect some benefit or advantage from the continuance of the life of the retired member”</b>. If the election is for a person who is more nearly related than a cousin, no proof of financial expectation is required. An election for insurable interest coverage, for other than a dependent (as described in 10 U.S.C. 1072(2)), made by a member retiring on or after November 24, 2003 under a military disability provision, who dies within one year after being retired due to a cause related to the disability for which retired, shall be voided and any premiums paid for that coverage will be paid to the person to whom the annuity would have been paid. Bless those forward thinking ministers. And a pox on those backward thinking ones who came out against this issue.

Whether those ministers want to admit it or not, this is a civil rights issue.

Interestingly the Department of Defense has addressed this rather unceremoniously by making allowances for what they call a “person with an insurable interest”. A person who is financially dependent or shares common responsibilities like a mortgage, or other interest, must provide proof that they would be financially affected upon the demise. They make no mention of same sex stipulations. Dept. of Defense’s position may be a useful model in this situation.

Person with an Insurable Interest
http://www.military.com/benefits/survivor-benefits/survivor-benefit-plan-explained

A member who does not have a spouse or dependent child when eligible to make a program election may elect to provide coverage for a person with an insurable interest in the member. The Department of Defense defines an insurable interest as “a natural person with an insurable interest who has a reasonable and lawful expectation of financial benefit from the continued life of the participating member, or any individual having a reasonable and lawful basis, founded upon the relation of parties to each other, either financial or of blood or affinity, to expect some benefit or advantage from the continuance of the life of the retired member”. If the election is for a person who is more nearly related than a cousin, no proof of financial expectation is required.

An election for insurable interest coverage, for other than a dependent (as described in 10 U.S.C. 1072(2)), made by a member retiring on or after November 24, 2003 under a military disability provision, who dies within one year after being retired due to a cause related to the disability for which retired, shall be voided and any premiums paid for that coverage will be paid to the person to whom the annuity would have been paid.

Rate this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

]]> By: Benja http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39837 Benja Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:52:56 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39837 OUTSTANDING show of support. Thanks go out to all these leaders who stood up today.

OUTSTANDING show of support. Thanks go out to all these leaders who stood up today.

Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Michael Muller http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2010/03/04/have-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-39835 Michael Muller Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:12:50 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=12047#comment-39835 This event was organized by long-time civil rights activist <strong>Monroe Gilmour</strong>. Monroe is one of the mountains' many treasures --- without his dedication and good efforts, today's press conference would not have happened. On behalf of all the Hooligans: thank you Monroe, for all that you do for the people of Western North Carolina. (You can thank Monroe yourself by emailing him <a href="mailto:mgilmour@main.nc.us" rel="nofollow">here</a>.)

This event was organized by long-time civil rights activist Monroe Gilmour. Monroe is one of the mountains’ many treasures — without his dedication and good efforts, today’s press conference would not have happened.

On behalf of all the Hooligans: thank you Monroe, for all that you do for the people of Western North Carolina.

(You can thank Monroe yourself by emailing him here.)

Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

]]>