Comments on: Will Somebody Please Revive WNC’s Manufacturing Economy? http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:18:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: firelady http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37574 firelady Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:59:59 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37574 McKnight is a visionary! By the way, I grew up in No. NH- Franconia. I know the Economic development dynamics of the region quite well. McKnight is a visionary! By the way, I grew up in No. NH- Franconia. I know the Economic development dynamics of the region quite well.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37571 Tom Sullivan Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:25:54 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37571 I have McKnight's "Building Communities" book in front of me right now. Thanks. I have McKnight’s “Building Communities” book in front of me right now. Thanks.

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]]> By: firelady http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37570 firelady Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:06:08 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37570 Tom- I agree with you about the vibe you are getting from ED officials. I work in this field and am aghast at the somewhat purposeful lack of impetus/vision. I think it is a level of self-importance in a closed system marked by cultural insularity. They argue for their limitations, do ineffective and inefficient projects, and keep getting funding. No questions asked. The political dynamics supersede best practices/civic entrepreneurship. It truly is a good ol boys club- frankly, many of these people know nothing about economic development, and are still acting like it is 1980. No room in the inn for good ideas. I clearly don't belong to the right clubs either! I'm incredibly discouraged. Tom- I agree with you about the vibe you are getting from ED officials. I work in this field and am aghast at the somewhat purposeful lack of impetus/vision. I think it is a level of self-importance in a closed system marked by cultural insularity. They argue for their limitations, do ineffective and inefficient projects, and keep getting funding. No questions asked. The political dynamics supersede best practices/civic entrepreneurship. It truly is a good ol boys club- frankly, many of these people know nothing about economic development, and are still acting like it is 1980. No room in the inn for good ideas. I clearly don’t belong to the right clubs either! I’m incredibly discouraged.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37566 Tom Sullivan Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:14:59 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37566 Indeed. My point all along, though, is that the local failure to rebuild our industrial base is not just a state incentives issue. But there's something else missing. When I bring up this topic to local officials (and some locals), I get this odd vibe that I'm stepping on toes (I am) and/or sticking my nose where it's not wanted. People trot out a list of rote excuses for why our area cannot do better even after (drawing on years of experience supporting the manufacturing sector) I cite example after example of locales both larger and smaller that have solved similar problems, retooled and resurrected their manufacturing sector and are more prosperous than before textiles and furniture gave out. It's like those in charge aren't really interested in putting people back to work in good-paying jobs. Is it a lack of talent? A lack of vision? A lack of interest? Does anybody else sense that? Is there a Mr. Big around here that no one dares cross? Maybe I just don't belong to the right clubs. Indeed. My point all along, though, is that the local failure to rebuild our industrial base is not just a state incentives issue.

But there’s something else missing. When I bring up this topic to local officials (and some locals), I get this odd vibe that I’m stepping on toes (I am) and/or sticking my nose where it’s not wanted. People trot out a list of rote excuses for why our area cannot do better even after (drawing on years of experience supporting the manufacturing sector) I cite example after example of locales both larger and smaller that have solved similar problems, retooled and resurrected their manufacturing sector and are more prosperous than before textiles and furniture gave out. It’s like those in charge aren’t really interested in putting people back to work in good-paying jobs. Is it a lack of talent? A lack of vision? A lack of interest?

Does anybody else sense that? Is there a Mr. Big around here that no one dares cross? Maybe I just don’t belong to the right clubs.

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]]> By: Doug Gibson http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37565 Doug Gibson Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:15:31 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37565 The point, though, was how little incentives seem to work - and that companies often try to meet the obligations they've agreed to, but miss their goals and lose out on incentives. I'm not a big fan of incentives, either, but that was pretty eye-opening. The point, though, was how little incentives seem to work – and that companies often try to meet the obligations they’ve agreed to, but miss their goals and lose out on incentives. I’m not a big fan of incentives, either, but that was pretty eye-opening.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37564 Tom Sullivan Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:14:51 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37564 Thanks. No, I hadn't seen that. (We don't get the paper during the week.) I'm not a big fan of incentives, but since nobody asked me before going down that path, I figure we ought to get our share west of Statesville. Thanks. No, I hadn’t seen that. (We don’t get the paper during the week.) I’m not a big fan of incentives, but since nobody asked me before going down that path, I figure we ought to get our share west of Statesville.

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]]> By: Doug Gibson http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37562 Doug Gibson Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:40:12 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37562 Tom, don't know if you saw this <a href="http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009312220004" rel="nofollow">AC-T article,</a> but you might find it food for thought. Seems that incentives programs have their limits. Tom, don’t know if you saw this AC-T article, but you might find it food for thought. Seems that incentives programs have their limits.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37550 Tom Sullivan Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:44:02 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37550 As a consulting engineer, I have worked in dozens of industries across NC, SC and GA, including textiles. But I don't work in textiles any more. Times change and we have to. If manufacturing were limited to TEXTILES and FURNITURE, then agreed, NC cannot compete with overseas labor rates. Those two industries will probably never come back. Luckily, manufacturing is broader than textiles and furniture. In fact, mixed manufacturing is thriving in Greenville-Spartanburg, the Triad and the Triangle. Those areas (Greenville-Spartanburg especially) saw the handwriting on the wall, left textiles behind decades ago, developed other industries and moved on. WNC did not. Wind turbines, you say? General Electric recently re-tooled and expanded its 1960s-vintage gas turbine plant in Greenville, SC to build these <a href="http://www.ge-energy.com/prod_serv/products/wind_turbines/en/downloads/GEA14954C15-MW-Broch.pdf" rel="nofollow">1.5 MW wind turbines</a>. Occasionally, you'll see the massive <a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/%252522truck%252522%20%252522wind%20turbine%252522/sd9043mac/ATS%20Specialized%20Wind%20Rig%208-16-08/ATSSpecializedWindTurbineRigWaiting.jpg" rel="nofollow">generator heads being transported on low boys</a> up I-26. The Triangle area specializes in pharmaceuticals, but lost is small microelectronics industry a decade ago. The Triad has a mix of manufacturing, including jet engines, buses, trucks and biotechnology. In GSP, they make cars, tires, cameras, pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, chemicals, LCDs (like the one on which you are viewing this), plastics, lighting, carbon fiber and small engines, etc. (I know. I've consulted for many of those facilities.) Soon, Greenville will be making <a href="http://www.bobbyharrellhome.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=372:ge-adding-aviation-jobs-in-greenville&catid=2:latest-news&Itemid=1" rel="nofollow">small jet engines</a>. <blockquote>GE said Monday it would move the small jet-engine parts manufacturing operation it launched five years ago at its massive complex on Garlington Road to a new location in The Matrix industrial park along U.S. 25. The company said it would hire another 100 people for the parts operation over the next four years at a starting salary of $27 an hour, bringing the total work force to 240. The new factory will go in a 155,000-square-foot building at The Matrix that formerly housed BMW supplier Grammer Industries Inc.</blockquote>They are renovating an <b>existing manufacturing site</b> like dozens that now sit idle in WNC. That's my point. Manufacturing is not dead in the U.S. or in NC. But it seems to be on life support around here. What are we doing about that? Not enough, obviously. I don't see that as a problem of overseas labor rates. I see the problem as failure of political leadership. As a consulting engineer, I have worked in dozens of industries across NC, SC and GA, including textiles. But I don’t work in textiles any more. Times change and we have to.

If manufacturing were limited to TEXTILES and FURNITURE, then agreed, NC cannot compete with overseas labor rates. Those two industries will probably never come back. Luckily, manufacturing is broader than textiles and furniture. In fact, mixed manufacturing is thriving in Greenville-Spartanburg, the Triad and the Triangle. Those areas (Greenville-Spartanburg especially) saw the handwriting on the wall, left textiles behind decades ago, developed other industries and moved on. WNC did not.

Wind turbines, you say? General Electric recently re-tooled and expanded its 1960s-vintage gas turbine plant in Greenville, SC to build these 1.5 MW wind turbines. Occasionally, you’ll see the massive generator heads being transported on low boys up I-26.

The Triangle area specializes in pharmaceuticals, but lost is small microelectronics industry a decade ago. The Triad has a mix of manufacturing, including jet engines, buses, trucks and biotechnology. In GSP, they make cars, tires, cameras, pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, chemicals, LCDs (like the one on which you are viewing this), plastics, lighting, carbon fiber and small engines, etc. (I know. I’ve consulted for many of those facilities.)

Soon, Greenville will be making small jet engines.

GE said Monday it would move the small jet-engine parts manufacturing operation it launched five years ago at its massive complex on Garlington Road to a new location in The Matrix industrial park along U.S. 25.

The company said it would hire another 100 people for the parts operation over the next four years at a starting salary of $27 an hour, bringing the total work force to 240.

The new factory will go in a 155,000-square-foot building at The Matrix that formerly housed BMW supplier Grammer Industries Inc.

They are renovating an existing manufacturing site like dozens that now sit idle in WNC. That’s my point. Manufacturing is not dead in the U.S. or in NC. But it seems to be on life support around here. What are we doing about that?

Not enough, obviously. I don’t see that as a problem of overseas labor rates. I see the problem as failure of political leadership.

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]]> By: slowlocal http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37549 slowlocal Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:58:35 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37549 IN reference to Tom's comments - "The manufacturing problem is not a matter our being able to compete with overseas labor. Boyle’s article quotes the NC Chamber’s “Sustaining Success, Breaking Away“: “Research shows that, even though companies are moving jobs overseas, jobs are still more likely to be lost to other states than to other nations.” Drive along I-85 south of here to see how it’s done. I’m not suggesting we can or should pursue that level of development, just that “we can’t compete with overseas labor” is a red herring." Not a red herring at all. I looked through the NC Chamber's report, saw the statement, but no references to the "research". Overseas competition IS our biggest challenge - just ask furniture and textile workers in Caldwell, Alexander and our other former furniture and textile producing counties. Did you hear the NPR report two weeks ago? A Broyhill furniture employee in NC makes about $15.00/hour compared with a Broyhill employee in China making $0.70 cents a day. WE CANNOT compete with those labor rates. Same is proving true in trying to recruit other manufacturers (wind turbines, looms, for example). We are told we cannot compare to Asian labor rates or work ethic. Yes, there is state-by-state incentives and we compete against other states to a degree, but it's small potatoes compared with the manfacturing losses since NAFTA./ Caldwell County has lost over 7,000 jobs in the last 5-7 years, and even though they landed Google, that's several hundred jobs as compared with 7,000 (fully half of their manufacturing jobs). The manfacturing we can recruit will be on a much smaller scale, and will/is be much more diverse. IN reference to Tom’s comments – “The manufacturing problem is not a matter our being able to compete with overseas labor. Boyle’s article quotes the NC Chamber’s “Sustaining Success, Breaking Away“: “Research shows that, even though companies are moving jobs overseas, jobs are still more likely to be lost to other states than to other nations.” Drive along I-85 south of here to see how it’s done. I’m not suggesting we can or should pursue that level of development, just that “we can’t compete with overseas labor” is a red herring.”
Not a red herring at all. I looked through the NC Chamber’s report, saw the statement, but no references to the “research”. Overseas competition IS our biggest challenge – just ask furniture and textile workers in Caldwell, Alexander and our other former furniture and textile producing counties. Did you hear the NPR report two weeks ago? A Broyhill furniture employee in NC makes about $15.00/hour compared with a Broyhill employee in China making $0.70 cents a day. WE CANNOT compete with those labor rates. Same is proving true in trying to recruit other manufacturers (wind turbines, looms, for example). We are told we cannot compare to Asian labor rates or work ethic. Yes, there is state-by-state incentives and we compete against other states to a degree, but it’s small potatoes compared with the manfacturing losses since NAFTA./ Caldwell County has lost over 7,000 jobs in the last 5-7 years, and even though they landed Google, that’s several hundred jobs as compared with 7,000 (fully half of their manufacturing jobs). The manfacturing we can recruit will be on a much smaller scale, and will/is be much more diverse.

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]]> By: Michael Muller http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-37067 Michael Muller Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:44:53 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-37067 Linda Brown writes: <blockquote><i>"...I'm hoping for something green, something aesthetically pleasing, plus high-paying jobs."</i></blockquote> Two words: Legalize marijuana. Think of all the money and resources we'd save by not enforcing stupid dope laws and all the revenue we could raise by taxing it like other products. A whole industry could be created around farming, distribution and packaging...not to mention all the organic ice cream that would fly off the shelves. Green. Aesthetically pleasing. High. Paying. Jobs. Linda Brown writes:

“…I’m hoping for something green, something aesthetically pleasing, plus high-paying jobs.”

Two words: Legalize marijuana.

Think of all the money and resources we’d save by not enforcing stupid dope laws and all the revenue we could raise by taxing it like other products. A whole industry could be created around farming, distribution and packaging…not to mention all the organic ice cream that would fly off the shelves.

Green. Aesthetically pleasing. High. Paying. Jobs.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36962 Tom Sullivan Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:32:18 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36962 I'm expecting to be at the Homecoming Jobs Fair at Biltmore Square Mall (Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.) with a videographer. If you thought events like the Kansas City free clinic were tough to watch on TV, come to see this in person. I’m expecting to be at the Homecoming Jobs Fair at Biltmore Square Mall (Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.) with a videographer. If you thought events like the Kansas City free clinic were tough to watch on TV, come to see this in person.

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]]> By: barry http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36956 barry Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:42:37 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36956 I had a friend at the time 4-5 years ago who enrolled in that program, and I remember thinking it was just the sort of partnership that could lead to good things for the region. I hope it doesn't just roll up because Volvo is pulling out. I had a friend at the time 4-5 years ago who enrolled in that program, and I remember thinking it was just the sort of partnership that could lead to good things for the region. I hope it doesn’t just roll up because Volvo is pulling out.

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]]> By: John http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36953 John Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:15:36 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36953 Yeah Barry. The welding dept. has a Volvo training space. I believe mech. engineering was involved but I can’t be certain of that. I wasn't in the program very long. Metal dust in the eyes wasn’t my thing. It’s too bad too because the instructors had a lot of say in who got hired out there. Yeah Barry. The welding dept. has a Volvo training space. I believe mech. engineering was involved but I can’t be certain of that. I wasn’t in the program very long. Metal dust in the eyes wasn’t my thing. It’s too bad too because the instructors had a lot of say in who got hired out there.

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]]> By: barry http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36949 barry Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:23:15 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36949 That really is bad news. Somebody correct me, but didn't AB Tech actually create or expand their welding/mech. engineering programs just to train up new workers for that plant? That really is bad news. Somebody correct me, but didn’t AB Tech actually create or expand their welding/mech. engineering programs just to train up new workers for that plant?

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]]> By: Admin Hooligan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36944 Admin Hooligan Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:02:33 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36944 Speaking of WNC's manufacturing economy, <a href="http://m.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091211/NEWS/91211013/1001/WAP&template=wapart" rel="nofollow">it looks like it's taking another hit come March 31</a>. Say goodbye to Volvo, Asheville... Speaking of WNC’s manufacturing economy, it looks like it’s taking another hit come March 31. Say goodbye to Volvo, Asheville…

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]]> By: barry http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36911 barry Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:44:42 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36911 Also interesting from that animation - the only county in NC not to go purple or green was Orange County, home to UNC-Chapel Hill, Triangle Research Park, and the "Floyd" from Pink Floyd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Council Also interesting from that animation – the only county in NC not to go purple or green was Orange County, home to UNC-Chapel Hill, Triangle Research Park, and the “Floyd” from Pink Floyd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Council

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]]> By: Admin Hooligan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36908 Admin Hooligan Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:48:55 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36908 Wow. The company I used to work for at one point supplied alumina-oxide and silicon nitride segments for the blades that were used for smoothing out the pulp at several paper mills, including the Wausau mill in Groveton. Wow. The company I used to work for at one point supplied alumina-oxide and silicon nitride segments for the blades that were used for smoothing out the pulp at several paper mills, including the Wausau mill in Groveton.

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]]> By: Tom Sullivan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36905 Tom Sullivan Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:59:55 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36905 Yeah, what's with those tiny, rural towns of Lebanon and Hanover in Grafton Co. on the edge of the White Mountains having a higher median family income than Buncombe? Haven't been there since I put in a gas turbine and cogeneration boiler at the Wausau paper mill in Groveton, NH (now closed). I worked in the first trailer nearest the footbridge on the left side of the river (about 7 o'clock in the picture). The boiler bldg. (tan) is just on the other side of the river. That's where I was on 9/11. http://www.hartcorp.com/Property-Detail/NH000282 Yeah, what’s with those tiny, rural towns of Lebanon and Hanover in Grafton Co. on the edge of the White Mountains having a higher median family income than Buncombe?

Haven’t been there since I put in a gas turbine and cogeneration boiler at the Wausau paper mill in Groveton, NH (now closed). I worked in the first trailer nearest the footbridge on the left side of the river (about 7 o’clock in the picture). The boiler bldg. (tan) is just on the other side of the river. That’s where I was on 9/11.

http://www.hartcorp.com/Property-Detail/NH000282

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]]> By: barry http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36903 barry Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:02:43 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36903 Michael said: "Not to be Debbie Downer, but here’s a striking animated map showing national unemployment rates by county, January 2007 – October 2009. It ain’t pretty." Don't feel bad, Debbie. That was interesting. I was struck by how the only bright spots in the entire Eastern third of the US were the area around Washington DC (no surprise there), and this place, Grafton County, New Hampshire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafton_County%2C_New_Hampshire Their principal industries are high-tech, bio-meds, and academia (Dartmouth College, among others.) Michael said: “Not to be Debbie Downer, but here’s a striking animated map showing national unemployment rates by county, January 2007 – October 2009. It ain’t pretty.”

Don’t feel bad, Debbie. That was interesting. I was struck by how the only bright spots in the entire Eastern third of the US were the area around Washington DC (no surprise there), and this place, Grafton County, New Hampshire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafton_County%2C_New_Hampshire

Their principal industries are high-tech, bio-meds, and academia (Dartmouth College, among others.)

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]]> By: Jim http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/12/06/will-somebody-please-revive-wncs-manufacturing-economy/comment-page-1/#comment-36901 Jim Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:40:38 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=10003#comment-36901 If tourism is an important part of the Asheville economy, how soon can we get rail service from Charlotte and Raleigh restored? And in the meantime, some kind of shuttle to the Amtrak in South Carolina? If tourism is an important part of the Asheville economy, how soon can we get rail service from Charlotte and Raleigh restored?

And in the meantime, some kind of shuttle to the Amtrak in South Carolina?

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