Karl Rove’s admitted his plan during the Bush years was to create a “permanent Republican majority” and completely cripple the Democrats, so claiming that sort of goal is a unique evil Democratic plot is the pot calling the kettle black. I’m not saying that it’s okay. The Dems shouldn’t do it either. I think a two party system is important. Certain things need government assistance. I don’t believe the government’s sole job is national defense and nothing else.

And the plan is not falling under it’s own weight. The Dems still haven’t put forth a plan.

Republicans aren’t irrelevant. Not to mention that when they are perceived as irrelevant they are louder than ever and can create perceived outrage better than anyone.

There are local people attending these town meetings. But they are just repeating the conservative talk show talking points (the endless loop thing) and not much else.

DM

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Oh – it triggers Tim Peck (#1)’s Tourettes-like pottymouth. He (and others, I guess) feel like the period during which it was OK to mock them for their incredibly stupid choice of names has run out. And I sort of agree – it isn’t like they merely chose a name whose acronym turns out to spell ‘F.A.R.T.’ – it actually evokes something REALLY dirty. So I said I would not use that term here on SH anymore. I’m doing my part to raise the level of debate.

Still holding my breath to see if he has the bags to resist calling the Democratic Party the “Democrat Party”.

Well, not really holding my breath.

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Here’s another Lawrence O’Donnell clip I thought was well done. It’s frustrating to realize that those who oppose reform and change of health care in America are not the brightest bulbs on the planet.

http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/hardball-town-hall-protester-exposed

Be sure to read the comments too.

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you wrote:

“I refuse to get drawn into using the ‘t’ word to describe Tea Party activists”

I assume you mean ‘teabaggers.’ Would you please explain why you feel the way you do about the term?

Thanks

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I guess I overestimated your insight. I’ve been an admirer of Frank, Sanders (Sanders and I go way back–even before he ran for governor) and a (too) few others for a long time.

If your only suggestion is to aggressively answer back when confronted with wingnut nonsense then I’m already ‘been there, done that.”

I, early on, forwarded Lawrence ODonnell’s MSNBC clip. Refreshing it was to see someone with a set ‘dominate’ and reject the nonsense spin being spouted.

I, by nature, act that way myself–often upsetting more mild-mannered colleagues and associates.

What I looked to you for, with your admonition to ‘be aggressive’ was for some strategy, tactic, action that goes beyond the verbal pissing matches we are mired in–even at this moment.
s
I guess I was thinking, marches, sit-in, boycotts, strikes, direct action,et al.

Talking & writing about health care reform hasn’t accomplished much. Maybe it’s time to get out of our chairs & away from our keyboards.

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A HuffPo commenter provided this link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/lawrence-odonnell-exposes_n_260177.html

It’s another good example. You can’t just debunk the lies. You have to debunk the liars. They have to pay a price for spreading them. If you don’t punish misbehavior, you’ll get more of it. That’s their own philosophy. They need to be held to it. They’ll either stop doing it or at least think twice beforehand. They respect strength and the left has to exhibit some.

If they’re sucking wind, we get breathing space. It’s not polite. It’s not sophisticated. It’s not high-minded. Sorry. Neither are they.

Thanks, Barry. Good one. Barney’s a pro.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/19/barney-frank-confronts-wo_n_262682.html

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But yes, I think a march to DC on the 13th is a great idea, especially since the ‘t’ people will have been there just the day before. We can all carry signs that say, “Ha ha ha. But seriously…”

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And so, how about the March on Washington For Health Care
September 13 idea Robert Reich has proposed. Teabaggers already plan to be there on the 12th. Maybe it’s time to get rowdy and kick a little ass. Just like old times!

http://northcoastcafe.typepad.com/north_coast_cafe/2009/08/m.html

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Did you read the HuffPo column? The ‘Bernie and Barney’ links are there, showing how Barney Frank and Bernie Sanders stand up to the low tactics and hypocrisy of the right.

I think these are great examples – and the thing is, when more people, Congressman & others, get up & tell the truth & refuse to play the ‘take another step back from your principles & maybe they’ll like you’ game, the weaker the attacks will become.

Look at how the right has been winning: when there was talk of single-payer, they said oh, no. But we might support a public option. As they were killing the public option, they were saying they might support co-ops. Now some of them are saying that they will oppose even the weak-ass co-ops. By the time the White House and the Blue Dogs get done “compromising”, “negotiating”, “finding common ground”, and “seeking bi-partisanship”, we’ll wind up with a bill that eliminates Medicare and allows the insurance companies to build debtors prisons and free-market organ exchanges for the poor to settle their healthcare bills.

He’s right – throw a few elbows. They’ll stop blocking the lane to the basket.

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I’m beginning to think you really don’t have any new ideas, just vague criticism of what’s been done so far. Can you be specific? Can you give examples of strategy or action that’s been successful and ought to be emulated?

What does this mean? “The links to HuffPo Bernie and Barney are examples of progressives elegantly eviscerating opponents.”

You eloquently chastize the left for not being down and dirty enough to be winning this push for big change, but I read nothing practical or strategical, no suggestions, no directions, no examples of what steps to take. “Be domineering” is not a strategy.

Do you have any real ideas? Do you know anyone who does?

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-sullivan/do-progressives-have-what_b_261695.html

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They have no commitment to the very lies they’re spreading. Bush went through reasons for invading Iraq like a plate of chicken wings. None of them had much meat on them, and as soon as he’d stripped one bare, he’d toss it aside and pick up another. When he ran out, he pointed to the pile of bare bones and went, “See?”

Debunking is important. The lies need to be knocked down. But unless progressives want to make careers of playing defense, they need to start making their opponents pay a price for spreading them. Otherwise, they’ll always be swatting at lies instead of promoting their own agenda.

Progressives have to destroy the credibility of the false witnesses. Facts help, but aggressiveness helps more. The links to HuffPo Bernie and Barney are examples of progressives elegantly eviscerating opponents. They are pros.

But a prerequisite for that is a backbone. As long as they bark and we roll over, they’ll win and we’ll lose.

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It’s the same with the distortions and lies about health care. Citing facts gives the illusion that it’s a reasoned debate when it’s not.

Recent town hall displays — including the swastikas and death threats, explicit and implied — prove again that it’s past time that progressives got a clue and stopped bringing letter openers to gun fights.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-sullivan/do-progressives-have-what_b_261695.html

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http://northcoastcafe.typepad.com/north_coast_cafe/2009/08/heath-care-satisfaction-survey-.html

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You really ought to try to get out more.

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