Teabags Across America
By
I haven’t paid too much attention, but there’s going to be a gaggle of folks upset with the government who are planning to swing teabags. I visited the Asheville “Tea Party” Protest website to try to wrap my head around it. Judging from the janeq op-ed on the front page, this group wants to take the Bush tax cuts and extend them to the edge of a libertarian waterfall.
The Boston Tea Party was based on the ‘taxation without representation’ problem. Since we are living in a representative democracy, today’s teabag parties are simply “taxation sucks” affairs. It’ll be fascinating to see who turns out. I love a good public protest as much as the next guy, and I’m positively transported by the idea of a raucous crowd of anti-tax activists milking the humble teabag for all it’s worth.
I’d like someone to produce a budget that allows for the kind of tax cuts extolled by the teabag crowd. It would mean cutting education, defense, housing, law enforcement, environmental protection, and more. Since the supply-side Republicans who argued that the economy could grow its way out of debt are living in the cold shadow of GWB’s presidency, what’s left are the Grover Norquist Republicans.
“I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” – Grover Norquist
There’s no one in either party with a realistic plan to pay down the federal deficit. Barack Obama’s pre-financial-crisis plan to balance the budget through a combination of pulling out of Iraq and letting the Bush tax cuts expire got ejected in the light of the global credit crisis. He’s going to have to deal with the dangers of inflation and hostile creditors while trying to drag America out of her worst economic condition since the Great Depression. It’s a thankless position, and I’m glad to know that Barack Obama is in command to address both the credit crisis and the skyrocketing debt. He’s committed to preserving vital government services, ensuring health care for every American, and transforming our energy economy. These are the things that the teapeople oppose, and so they’re taking it to the streets.
The teabaggers have every right to express their outrage by dangling Lipton sacks in every public square from Asheville to Amarillo, but they ought not be surprised when their ideas are rebuffed by Americans who want government to succeed for the people.
85 Comments
April 14th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Hi Gordon,
Jane Q. here.
Glad to know you visited our website and read my op-ed. I assume that means you know that the things we oppose are non-partisan. Opposition to corporate bailouts, staggering national debt, devaluation of our currency, pork… You really should join us at the protest.
Why so derisive and scornful?
One minor point of correction, we’re actually in the worst economic condition since the Carter Administration. Remember double digit unemployment and crippling inflation?
All the best,
Erika Franzi
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April 14th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I’m sure that big elephant next to your name has something to do with the nonpartisan nature of the protest. Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and the gang are big fans of this nonpartisan protest. It’s more than a little disingenuous.
Like I said, I think it’s great y’all are getting out there and peaceably assembling to make your political views known.
Opposition to corporate bailouts? How about opposition to corporate welfare for the last several decades? Opposition to staggering national debt? Where have you been for the last eight years? Devaluation of our currency? Again, missed you for the last eight years. Pork? It’s about 1% of the budget, and one man’s pork is another man’s important economic development project.
I’m working all day tomorrow, so I won’t be able to attend. However, our having legitimate disagreements is neither derisive or scornful, and I hope your teabag protests come off swimmingly.
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April 14th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Oh, Jane, I meant to ask. Which of Shuler’s earmarks would you want to do away with?
http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/04/07/heath-shulers-appropriation-requests/
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April 14th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Is it not possible for a Republican to be involved in something that transcends partisan politics. Your cynicism is startling.
And referring to us as a “gaggle” of folks “milking the teabag”…that is derisive and scornful.
I thought you were more capable of sensible discourse. I was wrong.
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April 14th, 2009 at 11:31 am
I am not a Republican and I will be attending the nonpartisan Asheville Tax Day Tea Party. And I will be bringing some smart Democrats with me.
My main objection is to government meddling in the economy (which phenomenon gave us our current economic crisis). This is a position I have held for, yes, the last eight years. I particularly oppose (1) taxing the poor to bailout the rich and (2) debasement of currency through inflation of the money supply (which makes us all poorer).
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Hm.
I’m being entirely sensible. You would like me to say things differently it would appear. Perhaps “group” instead of “gaggle” would please you? And “overutilizing a symbolic visual device” instead of “milking the teabag” is better?
Again – I’m not sure what sort of language will allow you to feel better.
As to the partisan issue – I haven’t seen anyone but Republicans and libertarians talking excitedly about this protest.
Which of Shuler’s earmarks would you like to do away with?
I’m listening, and I respect your efforts. That doesn’t mean I will agree or refrain from having my own opinions.
Thanks for dropping by.
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
There were a couple of comments left in this thread that got borked I believe. Please resubmit them, and you have my apologies.
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Not partisan, Jane? This is an excerpt from an email I just got from RNC Chairman Michael Steele:
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
[re-submitted]
I am not a Republican and I will be attending the nonpartisan Asheville Tax Day Tea Party. And I’ll be bringing some smart Democrats with me.
I oppose the government taxing the poor to bailout the rich and the printing of fiat money (a hidden tax) to fund military adventurism around the world. A position I have held for, yes, the last eight years.
My main objections are (1) government meddling in the economy (which phenomenon gave us our current economic crisis) and (2) debasement of currency through inflation of the money supply (which makes us all poorer).
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Gordon,
watch IOUSA the movie and then please tell me economic accountability is a “partisan issue”.
also, please tell me it’s a partisan issue that the Federal Government OBEY THE CONSTITUTION.
or, should the Fed’s only obey the Constitution when it agrees with your personal agendas?
consider getting off the partisan bandwagon of deception.
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
you want a realistic plan for reducing the Federal budget and reducing the tax burden of all Americans?
how about taking the advice of ex-US Comptroller General, David Walker, and start with cutting back Federal Government where it has no Constitutional jurisdiction? according to Walker, that would cut roughly 66% of the budget. (but what would he know, he’s just some extremist right-wing partisan hack, right?
perhaps you favor GARGANTUAN centralized government to control every aspect of your life. perhaps you enjoy ENDLESS WARS (Drugs, Terrorism, Poverty). perhaps you enjoy a Federal Government who has done SO MUCH GOOD for public education.
other Americans do not enjoy such an oppressive near-all-powerful centralized government and would rather the Federal Government to obey its Constitutionally limitations.
education & drug legislation are matters for the State, not the Federal Government. i cannot understand any reasoning for people to be against this. also, if the Federal Government would obey the Constitution, it would actually have to declare WAR against a nation, not inanimate objects and fighting tactics — ENDLESS WARS.
i am very saddened that there seemingly so many people who would rather choose to continue in an endless game of partisan politics.
sad, very sad.
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Chairman Steele is displaying the chief problem with partisanship. This is a characteristic he shares with his partisan cousins in the political duopoly.
In this case, Steele is non-leader grasping around to hijack a genuine nonpartisan grassroots movement that has a legitimate complaint and then place his own particular special interest in the spotlight and displace the prominence of the ordinary people who gave this movement its force.
This is that “jumping in front of a parade” syndrome the we see played out every season regardless of party.
Nevertheless, the cause is a worthwhile one and I support it.
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Evidently if I’m not teabagging then I’m on “the partisan bandwagon of deception”. I reckon there’s some other options there as well.
I wonder if Jane thinks you’re being derisive and scornful?
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
oh, and one other thing…
i thought “progressives” were AGAINST giving welfare to CORPORATIONS and other private interests…? have things CHANGED all that much???
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
you’ve gotta be kidding me! you THINK my saying, “consider getting off the partisan bandwagon of deception,” might be considered as being “scornful”???
LOL!!!!!!!!! now that’s FUNNY!
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
The Tea Baggers (I love saying that!) are a very partisan group, and from what I can tell…they are very tightly controlled by the neocons…
An example from our Asheville Liberty Google Group (I am a member):
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April 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
To the followers of the Jingo Circus — Do you mean these tea parties? Sorry to let you in on the secret: but it’s astroturf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by right-wing billionaires and promoted heavily by News Corp.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Dear Jane,
I think the most disingenuous thing about the tea bag day, is that it is far right Republican show off escapade being painted as spontaneous and grass roots. It is not and everyone knows it.
Digby has the scoop, and as usual, the reasoning. Corporate grassroots.
Save the Rich has become the most comprehensive site for understanding the truth about this gimmick. Below are some highlights for all you gentle seekers of the truth.
I too applaud the efforts of Americans everywhere, regardless of political affiliation, to make their voices known. Fox News however is not a news organization. It is a propaganda device, nothing more. It is the primary media mover here.
Freedom Watch is a right wing Republican corporate activist organization led by the notorious Dick Armey. There is nothing spontaneous or even remotely non-partisan here. That’s the truth.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I am not a Republican and I will be attending the nonpartisan Asheville Tax Day Tea Party. And I’ll be bringing some smart Democrats with me.
I oppose the government taxing the poor to bailout the rich and the printing of fiat money (a hidden tax) to fund military adventurism around the world. A position I have held for, yes, the last eight years.
My main objections are (1) government meddling in the economy (which phenomenon gave us our current economic crisis) and (2) debasement of currency through inflation of the money supply (which makes us all poorer).
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
And here is one more tidbit from my email from Americans for Prosperity (read article at Source Watch about AFP):
I have similar emails from FreedomWatch, the RNC, etc.
There are even some Republican Parties that will be registering new voters at a Tea Baggers Ball near you.
The Tea Bag Parties are an attempt by the same old Republicans who have always been in charge, they are whipping people up, and they are seeking the prize of your email address so they can sell it to who ever runs for President in 2012.
I thought Tim Peck and Bernard Carman were smarter than this, to be taken in by the same old neocon charlatans who have run the GOP for years.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
no, i guess i’m too stupid to just sit back and refuse to stand up for GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY! LOL!
oh yeah, i’m SUCH a NEO-CON!!! what a riot!
NEWSFLASH: the fight is against TYRANNY folks! be not deceived by those who would perpetuate the “left” vs. “right” game.
FYI, i’ve been engaged in Tax Day protests for several years now. if AMERICANS of any political persuasion want to join me in standing up against tyranny, GREAT!
folks who are fueling the false notion that doing so is PARTISAN are being deceived and are also playing into the hands of those Neo-Cons who would do likewise… YOU’RE ACTING AS IF YOU’RE ON THE SAME TEAM OF TYRANNY AND OPPRESSION! do you even care? i hope so, but i’m just not seeing such evidence.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Obama’s been on the job, what 10 weeks? Where have you been the last eight years Bernard? You and your “fight against tyranny”…
And when “tax day” tea parties are zeig heil saluting each other in an theo-orgy of “burn the books” and “Obama Osama” chants, you lose the moral high ground. Sorry.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Thank you, Green Dragon. Calling people stupid does not strengthen your argument.
Republican, Democrats, Libertarians and Greens should be concerned, even alarmed, about out-of-control, reckless, greedy and unbridled government driving our nation into the ground.
If Democrats are under-represented at the nonpartisan Tea Party, it is not the fault of Republicans.
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I invite all you to come to our Liberty Asheville meeting tonight. The meeting is at 7pm at Natural Import Company in Biltmore Village.
Map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=107173610875810548408.00045677f5735ed603e78&z=19
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
How do tax cuts for the super wealthy fight tyranny and oppression again? I’m confused. I’m seeing a nice little tax cut in my pay checks lately since the President took office. How is that oppression? I’m a little confused as to why someone would think that corporate activism is anti-tyranny. Are you clinging to the long dismissed idea of Supply side economics? Isn’t that what brought us to this perilous economic condition? And one last thing? Who is the tyrant in question?
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
well, first of all, i’m not criticizing the Obama administration any more than i did the Bush administration. i don’t know where you have gotten the idea that i have done otherwise.
for the past 8 years, i’ve been involved with the Libertarian Party. i thought that might be a good idea in support of advancing liberty in America. in some ways, perhaps it was, and in others, perhaps not.
i have since some to the conclusion that partisan politics is moot at this point. the ballot box is as corrupt as every branch of government. the plurality voting system and ballot access legislation designed by those holding power are two MASSIVE hurdles against third parties from gaining any real significant ground to oppose the elitists of the “Duopoly Party”.
i now prefer to support the efforts of We the People [GiveMeLiberty.org], which is a non-partisan grassroots group dedicated to mandating the runaway UN-limited government adhere to the rule of law, particularly via the Accountability Clause of the First Amendment.
chances are, the Federal Government will continue to ignore these efforts, but at least there are Americans standing up for rule of law as opposed to rule of whim. if nothing else, the various lawsuits which the corrupt courts have ignored and the upcoming Continental Congress 2009 will serve as documentation proving that We the People have done as much as we can to advance a peaceful remedy for growing tyranny and oppression in America.
if you haven’t noticed, there has been another ENDLESS WAR being waged — one on individual liberty. and this war has been going on since the dawn of man. but in more recent times in this so called “land of the free”, this war has been waged by people in power, which are BOTH Republicans AND Democrats.
so when i see a “new” administration continue in foolish economic strategies, going into an increasing debt of which no nation would be able to handle, you had better bet that i’m going to stand up for a REAL CHANGE!
i challenge all those who believe the current administration’s continued course of excessive debt is a good idea for the future of our economy to watch the movie IOUSA, which is a non-partisan documentary… and now, it’s free online at Google video!
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April 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
oh, and BTW, why are Tim Peck’s posts being filtered? shall i have him send them via email and post for him?
… just curious.
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Thanks for your reasoned response benard.
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
One last example of the partisan nature of the Tea Bagger Balls Across America (I promise this is the last, Gordon):
I feel like I need a shower every time I get one of these things. If I was a blogging genius like Gordon, I’d put these on a blog and rip into them. I’ll leave that to the experts.
I wonder if Chariman Steele knows what Tea Bagging is…
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
randallt:
stealing from public money and giving it to CORPORATIONS and PRIVATE INTERESTS is ILLEGAL. Congress has no authority to do so, yet they do so. when the government blatantly does what it wills without regard to rule of law, this is tyranny.
if you think you’ve had a little tax cut, you are gravely deceived. the continued devaluation of the dollar is a tax increase for everyone, except perhaps for those who make/break the law who make their own salaries.
look, just go to GiveMeLiberty.org, and click on the “read/sign the petitions” link. you will find several Constitutional infringements listed.
and please, watch the movie IOUSA. i’m certainly not an economic expert, but it really doesn’t take an expert to see we’re on a road to economic destruction. the current administration is merely continuing on this road, and actually with this “stimulus” package, its sold us much farther down the road than even the last one!
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
benard, thanks for this dialogue. I disagree with most everything the Libertarian Party stands for. I think the stimulus and the direction the President is guiding the country is about right. “The Government”. You make it sound like it is a solitary entity. It is simply not. But I do appreciate your passion and activism. You are a fine example of why I love this country so much and was proud to serve it during the Viet Nam war.
I just hope you haven’t fallen for the Tea Bag charade being driven by the corporate and far right wing propaganda machine.
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
hey randallt, in regards to your message of thanks, you’re welcome! i try to remain reasonable. i don’t presume to have all the answers — far from it! i’m still only learning about the concepts of liberty and the most effective ways in which to increase liberty in America.
but truthfully, i don’t see things as getting better. i view the continued polarization of Americans as either being BLUE or RED as leading us ALL down a path of increased tyranny of the State, over the liberty of the individual.
if AMERICANS do not begin to put aside our various heated issues and come together over something unifying, like Constitutionally limited government for example, then i see a very grim future for us and our future generations.
i truly believe the principle, “united we stand, divided we fall.”
from my perspective, America continues to grow as a nation divided by the political climate we have been force fed. this page of comments exemplifies this phenomena, along with so many others, and shall we mention the media?
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Jane writes: “Is it not possible for a Republican to be involved in something that transcends partisan politics. ”
To which I reply….I certainly hope so….but I’ve yet to see it.
The Teabag protest had potential but was taken over by the far-right and used as yet another means of blindly attacking Obama.
The cries of “Tyranny! Tyranny!” levelled at the Obama administration ring hollow in light of recent history.
For eight years the Executive Branch of our government expanded both in size and power. Power was centralized in the Executive branch at the expense of the constitutionally designated balance of powers. Corporations operated without restraint bringing on scandals such as Enron and WorldCom which even exceded the S&L scandals of the 80′s.
National Debt and the National Deficit mushroomed to unprecendented levels.
Corporate power and wealth expanded as the middle class sank further and further.
I guess tyranny is in the eyes of the beholder.
I challenge the teabag protest speakers to take a non-partisan approach and criticize both parties for our current situation…..speak up boldly about the economic failures of the past 8 years.
We’re waiting with open ears.
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
THESE ARE COMMENTS FROM TIM PECK, NOT ME:
These are the comments that I have made throughout the day but which have not been posted.
COMMENT 1.
I am not a Republican and I will be attending the nonpartisan Asheville Tax Day Tea Party. And I’ll be bringing some smart Democrats with me.
I oppose the government taxing the poor to bailout the rich and the printing of fiat money (a hidden tax) to fund military adventurism around the world. A position I have held for, yes, the last eight years.
My main objections are (1) government meddling in the economy (which’>http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2009-spring/america-unfree-market.asp“>which phenomenon gave us our current economic crisis) and (2) debasement of currency through inflation of the money supply (which makes us all poorer).
COMMENT 2.
Chairman Steele is displaying the chief problem with partisanship. This is a characteristic he shares with his partisan cousins in the political duopoly.
In this case, Steele is non-leader grasping around to hijack a genuine nonpartisan grassroots movement that has a legitimate complaint and then place his own particular special interest in the spotlight and displace the prominence of the ordinary people who gave this movement its force.
This is that “jumping in front of a parade” syndrome the we see played out every season regardless of party.
Nevertheless, the cause is a worthwhile one and I support it.
COMMENT 3.
Thank you, Green Dragon. Calling people stupid does not strengthen your argument.
Republican, Democrats, Libertarians and Greens should be concerned, even alarmed, about out-of-control, reckless, greedy and unbridled government driving our nation into the ground.
If Democrats are under-represented at the nonpartisan Tea Party, it is not the fault of Republicans.
- Tim Peck
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Don, with your “open ears”, have you not heard of the criticism of the last administration?
YES — the Bush administration has greatly increased the debt, and it was certainly wrong for doing so.
but now, are We the People supposed to applaud the recent MASSIVE increases of debt, now up to nearly 11.2 TRILLION. on this continued course, where do you think we’ll be in 4 or 8 more years?
economically conservative Americans have certainly been criticizing this continued course for quite a very long time.
let’s not forget that we’re AMERICANS, not just REDs or BLUEs.
oh well, i think i’m done here. you all have fun!
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Tim Peck, (via Bernard @29) I said:
I did not say that you were stupid. Stop putting words in my mouth. I expressed my disappointment in your judgment, only to have you confirm it with an out of left field attack on me. Grow up and argue the point instead of misdirection.
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April 14th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Great conversation, peoples.
Tim – I’m not sure what’s up with your comments. I’ll ask admin forthwith. I like your jumping in front of the parade analogy, and I believe there’s some truth to it. However, understand that the majority of the American people just had an election and voted resoundingly for President Obama and his approach to governance.
I am alarmed at the massive debt expansion. I’m more alarmed that the financial institutions were underregulated in such a way as to allow our economy to get aloft so big a bubble. I’m a big fan of good government, and I don’t stand with the idea that drowning it in a bathtub will make our nation better.
But, by all means, protest. With the vacuum created by the implosion of the Bush era Republican Party, anyone who rushes in quickly enough and with some organization has a realistic shot at gaining quite a lot of power.
Have you ever seen those liberal rallies with everyone carrying different signs? “Peace Now”, “Free Mumia”, “No PATRIOT Act”, “Organic Food!”, etc.? That’s pretty much what I imagine tomorrow’s teabagging to look like. It’s messy when you’re trying to do something, and a lot of folks want to show up and make it about their own point of view.
But that’s democracy, right? It’s an exciting time when a political party goes off the deep end the way the national Republican Party did. It allows an opportunity for new thinking to grab hold. I’ve always believed that a strong opposition is good for America, and I was livid when the Democrats laid down during the Bush administration.
Build a good opposition. It makes the Democratic Party have to improve to hold on to the people’s trust.
So which earmarks of Heath Shuler’s would you like to do away with?
http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/04/07/heath-shulers-appropriation-requests/
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April 14th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
A brief explanation that will probably sound like a cheap excuse to anyone affected by this: sometimes Akismet (our spam filter) flags legit comments as spam, and we have to fish them out. We usually try to check the queue every so often, but since we’re only human with, you know, jobs and social lives and stuff, sometimes they languish in the spam queue longer than you’d like or longer than seems fair. We’re sorry about this.
In the meantime, there’s always the Topix forums if you don’t like the way we run things around here.
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April 14th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
The more the economy languishes because the government was dismantled to allow unbridled speculation, the more the government will have to print money to sustain it. And so on….
The teaparty/teabagging nonsense is just that. Our colonial founders had the benefit of an ocean, nearly infinite natural resources, slavery and a gun powder fueled dream to achieve freedom. Where are the opponents to overt taxation gonna go today, the worlwide web? Lame. Lame. Lame.
I’d suggest a lifestyle change whereby if don’t want to pay into the system, out of your automatically taxed paycheck, if you still have a job, you work instead to bring about the change you want to see happen. Be a real conservative and conserve.
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April 14th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Conservatives cut taxes, and then pushed for an unnecessary war that nearly doubled the national debt. All the time resisting any oversight or accountability as to how the money was spent. Flippin hell, seriously, how many times does this huge obvious detail have to be said? You broke it, you bought it. Neocons have tried to compare the war on terror to WW2 from the start. But in WW2, the patriotism was real, and people didnt mind doing thier part. If you dont want to pay your fair share to see your own policies carried out, you are a hypocrate.
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April 14th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
It is interesting that people on this site can post what I have written to others in a private email, but these same people can’t seem to get my last three posts in response out of the spam filter.
That is ok, keep your blinders on, if you don’t you just might learn something.
I get the hooligans part, you have plenty of that. Where is the scrutiny?
Gary
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April 14th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
“So which earmarks of Heath Shuler’s would you like to do away with?”
All of them. Theft is theft. It is not the proper role of the government to take money from those who have earned it and give it to others to whom it does not belong. That is the proper role of a thief, and the proper place for a thief is in chains. Socialism is unsustainable. Slavery is wrong.
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April 14th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Some fun excerpts from Shuler’s appropriation requests:
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April 15th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Taxes are the rent we pay to live in a civilization. I am not aware of any functioning civilization (bigger than say 500 people) that didn’t have any tax whatsoever. The real question is whether it will be spent well or ill.
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April 15th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Although I don’t necessarily object to most of the appropriations above, I’m just curious which ones create jobs and spur the economy.
It appears the answer is none.
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April 15th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Bob,
These are appropriations, not stimulus measures.
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April 15th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Unbelieveable, sad, very sad. People like Andrew who say things like, “tea parties are zeig heil saluting each other in an theo-orgy of “burn the books†and “Obama Osama†chants, you lose the moral high ground.”, are the reason the issues continue on for so long without resolution.
Go ahead Andrew, sling those sensational historical and political labels all over the place as you obviously believe you know the motives and intentions of every American citizen who might attend one of these Tea Parties.
I doubt you have actually read the “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”? If you had, you would understand not only the inaccuracy of your comment, but the abject hypocrisy in it as well.
Incidentally, you lost your moral high ground the minute you judged your fellow citizens so quickly. But, I seriously doubt you have the humility to receive such criticism.
It is so pathetically easy to use the internet to spote flippant, unfounded, uneducated opinions.
See above.
“Men are ruled, at this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern.” G. K. Chesterton – 1917
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April 15th, 2009 at 10:46 am
So which one of you is going to twitter or live-blog the tea bag protest?;)
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April 15th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Not I. I’ve got to work.
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April 15th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I can’t decide if I want to go see it all for myself or watch all the crazy people on WLOS! BTW, I can see why folks are concerned about the rising deficit – I am, but why didn’t these idiots have anything to say anytime during the past 8 years? Hello – Bush inherited a surplus – DUH! But, then again, these are the same people who voted for Dumbya – twice!
The ignorance is truly amazing!
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April 15th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Brian, video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwdOwgD5OsY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eslumdoglake%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded
I’ve read Shirer. Have fun storming the castle today.
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April 15th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
I had determined not to come back here, because you all don’t bother ask the source. But I have to correct something. Green Dragon. I specifically refused the presence of Americans for Prosperity, the John Locke Foundation, or any other groups associated with them. I told Dallas Woodhouse that they were not welcome at our protest. If you had but asked me, I could have told you that. Tell me again how we are a astroturfed effort. We have taken no money or support from any of the groups that you try to connect us to. This is an organic effort of WNC citizens and you folks just don’t know what to make of us.
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April 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
So, Jane. Which of Shuler’s appropriations would you do away with?
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April 15th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Jane, the reason behind the protests, from what I’ve heard and seen thus far, is the anger over out of control government spending. Fine. The problem is that that’s extremely vague. Actually it’s borderline useless. Getting together a bunch of selectively pissed off, middle aged people who haven’t the slightest clue how the tax system works is not the way to change the system from within. If it was, there would have been public “tea parties” during not only the years of the Bush Administration, 1st and 2nd, but also during Reagan and his massive deficit spending and tax hikes that almost obliterated the working middle class. THAT is astroturf. Fake grass roots. And don’t get me wrong, fringe liberals are just as guilty of this. Trust me. I’ve had to endure the Michael Moores and Keith Olbermann’s of the world just like you and Brian. I’m not saying there isn’t a legitimate and alternate viable solution buried somewhere within your “outrage”. I’m just saying that I haven’t heard it yet. And that’s a direct reflection of the VAST majority in this knee-jerk movement who simply don’t know what they’re doing. They’re riding a groupie wave of political dissent and ideological sentimentality. And it’s sad. While they may have the right to their own opinion, they don’t have the right to their own facts.
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April 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Count me in. I’ve gotta go see these nutjobs for myself!
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April 15th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I wonder how many will drag their brainwashed kids along and force them to hold up signs about how their future is ruined because of Obama – blah, blah, blah? I’ll bet I see at least 10 kids with signs like that. Any wagers?
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April 15th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, You’re attitude is what makes it impossible to have a respectful intelligent exchange of ideas. Being “pre-combative” puts me in an aggressive and defensive state before I’ve even had a chance to share my views. This does not make for a constructive debate. Leave your daggers at home if you want to have a real discussion.
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April 15th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
It’s humorous that when people who oppose your ideas gather in peaceful protest that they are deemed “clueless”. However if it were a protest that you agree with, I’m sure you would be bragging that this is America and this is what American people do. Also the comment that TEA attendees are all middle age is another naive assumption. In fact this whole thread is a waste of valuable time, I’ll just take my clueless self back and run my big bad greedy corporation. I came here looking for info on local Tea Parties, not argue with narrow minded people.
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April 15th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Thanks, sandra. It’s funny that you’d come to Scrutiny Hooligans, see this long, semi-constructive debate predicated on the post I wrote, and claim that something I’ve done makes it impossible for you to share your views.
You and Jane both need something from me in order to feel better about posting here? I’m not sure I can help you.
If taking a stand or having an opinion on an issue makes me “pre-combative”, then I’m really hung up. I’m not sure who you’d like me to be.
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April 15th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Apologies for my offensive remarks, but I can’t help but find it somewhat amusing/ extremely hypocritical that people will protest the current administration for inheriting the mess we have now when the same people said nothing about the former administration’s piss poor management over the entire past 8 years. IMO, there’s nothing to debate, it’s as clear as day! Perhaps I should say it’s as clear as mud!
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April 15th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Green, You are presuming to know a lot about me, things I’ve said, thought, done, etc.
Gordon, As I stated, while searching for something else related to the Tea Parties, I ended up here. When re-reading your first post, it didn’t come off as cambative as when I originally read it, although I did feel an attitude of anyone protesting is ridiculous…and must be republican.
I will not bother anyone here further.
Good day to you all.
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April 15th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Sandra, you’re absolutely 100% right. It’s not just middle-aged. I’m watching FOX right now (don’t shoot me Gordo) and I see all sorts of old people dressed in halloween costumes, and kids — no doubt having been taken out of school for the sake of a cameo with Mr. Happy Glenn Beck himself. Btw, in your frustration you still haven’t put forth an actual alternative solution as to WHY you’re protesting whatever it is you’re protesting. I’m waiting with baited breath.
PS- Neil Cavuto cracks me up.
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April 15th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I just came from the media circus. Nutjobs everywhere! I posted a couple of pics on my blog (click my name to see). And yes, the kids were also out in full force – complete with signs and flags!
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April 15th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I should go home and get my Bush/Satan Halloween mask and go back!
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April 15th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Repeating this line from the post:
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April 15th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
WLOS just showed a little kid who couldn’t have been more than 2 years old holding a red sign proclaiming he’s BROKE. How pathetic! These people have no shame. They might as well drop their daughters off on Hiliard Avenue to turn a few tricks for a quick buck before they head back to Leceister.
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April 15th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I take back all the mean things I ever said about Clowns for Peace.
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April 15th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Even though the timing of this Tea Party Protest was suspect ….. I wanted to be open-minded as to whether this Tea Party Protest was truly a non-partisan effort as claimed.
I decided to watch the Asheville Tea Party promo video on You Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8REcmqBFCYw
The first two minutes of the video was composed of anti-Obama images and messages.
Then several people were interviewed. Many made statements about big government and massive spending and the dangers of the deficit….and I agreed with some of them.
But I recoginized some interviewees as members fo the far-right Republican activist group The Action Club. Several spoke adamantly about so-called Socialism resulting from the current administration. One man sang an anti-Obama song to the tune of a Janis Jopin song. Taken as a whole, the message was strongly anti-Obama and no mention was made of the role of President Bush and the previous administration in the creation of our current financial challenges.
The video closed with a message to visit
JaneQRepublican.wordpress.com which didn’t really sound like a non-partisan website but I decided to visit it to see just how non-partisan the organizer of the Asheville Tea Party was.
The blog makes numerous claims that the Tea Party is a non-partisan effort….and she almost had me convinced that inspite of her blogs name….she might actually be non-partisan. But then she revealed her true colors with the following statement.
“I am the first to admit that we were asleep at our post over the last 2 decades while the Federal Government was growing with increasing speed. We are awake now and we can thank President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid for providing the $1 trillion alarm. ”
source: http://janeqrepublican.wordpress.com/
The organizer of the Tea Party explicitly places the blame on Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Just as in the Tea Party promo video ALL the blame is placed on Obama and the Democrats with no mention of President Bush and his role in coverting a massive surplus into a massive deficit.
I agree with some of the statements about the dangers of mounting deficits and big government…..but cannot take part in this protest aimed more at dissing the Dems than creating solutions.
While there is an effort to ‘appear’ as if they are non-partisans their own statements and videos reveal the true nature of this effort.
Based on their own video and the statements of the Tea Party organizer NO rational person could conclude that the Tea Party is anything other than a Republican-led effort to criticize and blame the opposing party…in this case the Democrats…for all the problems facing our country.
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April 15th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I should add that I support the right of Republicans such as Erika to protest against the government, to write blogs, and to speak out openly about the problems they see with our country. Political activism is the root of our democracy and I support the right of ALL citizens to take a stand for what they believe in.
My problems is the effort of the “Jane Q Republicans” to hide behind thinly veiled claims of non-partisanship when in fact the Tea Party is irrefutably organized by Republicans ….and it’s organizer and participants leans heavily on anti-Obama rhetoric.
Let’s all be honest……Claiming that this Republican/Libertarian Protest is non-partisan is like Fox News claiming to be “fair and balanced”. …. it just aint so.
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April 15th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Get a grip. My taxes are falling, not going up. This “movement” is a sham. Regular folks like us were getting the shaft under the Bush regime and now that our taxes are getting cut,(I make less than 250k like 95% of Americans), we protest? Get a life!!! Obama, do your best! I’ll support you for a term then I’ll decide. But I’m not falling for this bullshit after what we went through these past 8 years and blaming him for it after 3 freaking months…
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April 15th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Dear Jane,
Did you miss my link to Save the Rich? The site explains astro-turfing. This tea bag event is a perfect example of this form of manipulation of peasants by their rich masters. It really is enlightening. Please give it a visit.
This link to Matt Taibbi’s take on America’s peasant mentality is an eye opener as well, especially for those that are familiar with the workings of mass psychology and propaganda. I hope you find both of these reads educational and useful as you sort out what all this means to you and the nation during these perilous times. Good luck and best wishes.
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April 15th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Let’s take a real leap here. Historical metaphor.
The early colonists opposed to Corporate/ Government (sic)taxation dressed up as indigenous people to commit an act of rebellion to the authorities taxing them without representing their interests. We all know how history played out for our indigenous brethren.
The characters parading around in costume today are cying out for you and me, democrat, republican, liberterian, whatever… caught in the throes of the goliath destroying us all, unless we individually and ultimately collectively confront the beast.
The collective mind takes no partisanship in crisis, that’s why costumes are worn.
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April 15th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Who is destroying us all again? I feel pretty good today. I proudly paid $252 in taxes after working my ass off all day and making people happy by doing a good job. I guess I just don’t get the angst that wasn’t there during the last eight years. That administration was truly working on destroying everything sacred and good about America and freedom and constitutional governance. So why now? Why THIS administration and not that one?
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April 16th, 2009 at 3:06 am
Conservatives dont grasp how little credibility the last 8 years have left them with.
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April 16th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I’d like someone to produce a budget that allows for the kind of tax cuts extolled by the teabag crowd. It would mean cutting education, defense, housing, law enforcement, environmental protection, and more.
actually only two areas in the national budget needs major trimming and we would get out of the red
- defense: we spend more then the UK, China, France, Japan and the next big 10 countries combined [http://tinyurl.com/4ucbrl] (ergo we responds to the Somali “pirates” with military might, hmmmm anyone paying attention to what has been going on in Somalia since the fall of Siad Barre’s dictatorship in 1991)
- corporate welfare, especially the insane habit of paying big agro-business to not grow food, or using oil-based products (fertilizer, crop protection, etc.) to grow food that then gets turned into ‘alternative’ fuel; or giving billions to oil companies to drill (if we give money to have energy sources found, shouldn’t we get a large portion of that back for free? we payed for it to be found, didn’t we????)
And thirdly bailouts: I am all for bailing out homeowners who got into a mess because of layoffs, health care cost, etc. not because they bought houses they could not possibly afford; but the bailout of the big three and financial institutions is sickening – Goldman-Sachs just posted a profit for 1stQ2009 [http://tinyurl.com/cahvbk] – yeah right you got that money from us via TARP and through AIG channeling even greater amounts of our Tax money to you – and GM & CO. are asking for even more money [http://tinyurl.com/c3ecvd] – hey I did not want to buy your crap cars, make cars that I like or get of the road!
So the ‘teabaggers’ have some good points and if we all could just leave party politics at home a true people movement could arise, but alas ……
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April 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Further evidence on the false claims that the Tea Party would be a non-partisan protest and avoid political statements aim at any one party.
Anti-Obama Signage from the “non-partisan” Tea Party Protest
“Stop Obam-unism + Overtaxation”
“Jobs!!! What Jobs? Change You Believed In? Impeachement Time Yet? He’s Not Looking Out For the U.S.A.”
“I’m only 7 and I’m deep in Debt. / Just say no to socialism.”
“Borrowed Taxmonies Crooked CEO’s Obamanomics Your Economic Situation Stimulated?”
(source: http://picasaweb.google.com/docjen/TeaParty41509?feat=directlink# )
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April 16th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Just to clarify. Jane Q. Republican = Jane = Erika Franzi = me.
An example of my hyper-partisanship:
http://janeqrepublican.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/chicago-tax-day-tea-party-to-rnc-no-thanks/
The Tea Party was great. Sorry you weren’t there to join us.
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April 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I was there and saw all the anti-Obama signs for myself. Unfortunately, for the tea bag crowd, I don’t have ADHD or Alzheimer’s and I don’t subscribe to revisionist history, sorry.
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April 16th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Also, unfortunately, the teabaggers were a few years too late. Had you tried this a few years ago you would have had millions join you instead of a few clueless republicans. We are not fooled!
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April 16th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
From the San Diego Union-Tribune:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/16/1n16taxday235125-tax-protesting-tea-parties-sweep-/?metro&zIndex=83193
“The tea parties also were promoted by FreedomWorks, a conservative nonprofit advocacy group based in Washington and led by former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey of Texas, who is now a lobbyist.
Organizers said the movement developed organically through online social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter and through exposure on Fox News.
The protests attracted some Republicans considering 2012 presidential bids.
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich addressed a tea party in a New York City park last night. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal sent an e-mail to his supporters, letting them know about tea parties throughout the state. South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford attended two tea parties.”
I’d say this was Newt’s unofficial announcement to run for POTUS in 2012
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April 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I was too busy counting the extra money in my paycheck. Kudos again Obama!!
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April 16th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
If you want to get an eyeful of some of the non-partisan Obama signs from yesterday click on the link below and click through the slide show:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html
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April 24th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Why don’t we talk about the issues instead of talking about who is sponsoring the movement and the types of signs they are holding? Let’s find out what we have in common and dialogue in a respectful manner with one another in order to find solutions. We need to practice listening and understanding points of view we may oppose in order to move forward instead of continuing to chase our tail. It doesn’t matter who we have in the White House or Congress or the Judiciary until ‘We the People’ start taking responsibility for opening up the lines of communication between one another.
How do we open up lines of communication between one another and allow space for opposing views to exist? How do we remain respectful so that we can build a discussion together?
Where to start? Opening question: How do we talk across differences?
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April 24th, 2009 at 4:27 am
Defensive much, teabaggers?
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April 24th, 2009 at 9:34 am
america,
Here’s how – you state a logical, reasonable position. Then you wait to see if anyone cares to address it.
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