Comments on: Where There’s Smoke, There’s Folks Getting Fired http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Wed, 23 May 2012 11:45:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: JB http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29028 JB Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:40:12 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29028 "Usage taxes are regressive. That is, the poor family in the Escort have to pay the same toll as the guy driving the Bentley." Not as regressive as assuming that everyone drives, and taxing folks who walk and bike to pay for highways they don't use. Roads are meant to be funded by user fees, and labeling it a "regressive tax" is a misnomer that inappropriately tries to elevate road access to the level of basic citizen rights like police protection or clean air and water. Motorists are allowed to externalize too many of their costs as it is. As for toll booths, I think they are widely recognized to be obsolete; GPS (or something similar) will be the tolling technology of the future and it will be feasible for computers to bill motorists for all their road usage without slowing down traffic. “Usage taxes are regressive. That is, the poor family in the Escort have to pay the same toll as the guy driving the Bentley.”

Not as regressive as assuming that everyone drives, and taxing folks who walk and bike to pay for highways they don’t use. Roads are meant to be funded by user fees, and labeling it a “regressive tax” is a misnomer that inappropriately tries to elevate road access to the level of basic citizen rights like police protection or clean air and water. Motorists are allowed to externalize too many of their costs as it is.

As for toll booths, I think they are widely recognized to be obsolete; GPS (or something similar) will be the tolling technology of the future and it will be feasible for computers to bill motorists for all their road usage without slowing down traffic.

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]]> By: Tom Buckner http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29027 Tom Buckner Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:02:26 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29027 Usage taxes are regressive. That is, the poor family in the Escort have to pay the same toll as the guy driving the Bentley. Also, it's more effective to charge people to get out, not in. If you charge to get in, they might go somewhere else. But if they want out, you've got them by the short'n'curlies. Now that gives me a better idea: Use unpaid prison labor to build more prisons for debtors who will be used to build more prisons to hold the ever-growing ranks of debtors who can then be forced to build more prisons to hold... Usage taxes are regressive. That is, the poor family in the Escort have to pay the same toll as the guy driving the Bentley.

Also, it’s more effective to charge people to get out, not in. If you charge to get in, they might go somewhere else. But if they want out, you’ve got them by the short’n'curlies.

Now that gives me a better idea:

Use unpaid prison labor to build more prisons for debtors who will be used to build more prisons to hold the ever-growing ranks of debtors who can then be forced to build more prisons to hold…

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]]> By: ObamaTJ http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29021 ObamaTJ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:03:45 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29021 Wow, just think of the traffic jam. Businesses on TUnnel Road would definietely benefit from that toll idea. Maybe a toll on either end of 240 where it meets 40. Wow, just think of the traffic jam. Businesses on TUnnel Road would definietely benefit from that toll idea. Maybe a toll on either end of 240 where it meets 40.

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]]> By: Mortise Tortoise http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29018 Mortise Tortoise Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:20:45 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29018 Why not install toll booths to pay for revenue negative infrastructure projects? We pay to park, whether it is on the city street or city parking garage. Why not pay to drive into the city too? I grew up in the northeast in a time of many tollbooths. I saw them get removed over time as projects got paid for. Those roads and bridges are now in bad shape. I say bring back the toll booth. How about one on Patton before it becomes the 240 bridge? Or maybe another on the Billy Graham Freeway at the crest of the Beaucatcher cut. We could even build a little visitor's bureau/rest area up there in the cliffs of the cut, it might sell some homespun local goods, more taxable revenue. I say, bring on the usage taxes Why not install toll booths to pay for revenue negative infrastructure projects?

We pay to park, whether it is on the city street or city parking garage. Why not pay to drive into the city too?

I grew up in the northeast in a time of many tollbooths. I saw them get removed over time as projects got paid for. Those roads and bridges are now in bad shape. I say bring back the toll booth.

How about one on Patton before it becomes the 240 bridge? Or maybe another on the Billy Graham Freeway at the crest of the Beaucatcher cut. We could even build a little visitor’s bureau/rest area up there in the cliffs of the cut, it might sell some homespun local goods, more taxable revenue.

I say, bring on the usage taxes

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]]> By: Tom Buckner http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29015 Tom Buckner Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:43:13 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29015 Actually one really nice thing about solar energy is that while you may think you need to live in some desert for it to work well, it's just not so. Germany is going solar in a huge way, and ther climate makes ours here look like Hawaii. Another nice thing about solar energy is that it's very decentralized. Central generating plants can be rendered utterly unnecessary. And it can be very, very lo-tek. Like the passive solar heaters one can make out of <a href="http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=solar+heater+beer+cans&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS275" rel="nofollow">beer cans</a> or <a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-Heater/" rel="nofollow">mosquito mesh</a>. Actually one really nice thing about solar energy is that while you may think you need to live in some desert for it to work well, it’s just not so. Germany is going solar in a huge way, and ther climate makes ours here look like Hawaii.

Another nice thing about solar energy is that it’s very decentralized. Central generating plants can be rendered utterly unnecessary. And it can be very, very lo-tek. Like the passive solar heaters one can make out of beer cans or mosquito mesh.

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]]> By: Jenny Bowen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29010 Jenny Bowen Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:42:17 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29010 What about Solar Farm parking decks? Pricy - but a double solution. Do we even know that solar is the best green industry for our area? What is our percentage of average sunshine? I need to find resources so far as what we have the most of naturally that can sustain our energy consumption needs. Concerning wages - one idea that I keep hearing circulated is local/alt currency, and the possibility of subsidising federal minimun wages to a level of a local living wage through some sort of local circulating currency. It's a tricky topic, but there have been a lot of good folks who have done much research on it and there seems to be a decent goundswell of support, but no real clear solution. There is going to be an <a href="http://www.ashevilleabc.com" rel="nofollow">ABC discussion</a> on the possibilities of alternate currency in Sept. The city needs to examine funding possibilities that are not created through high taxes and empty positions. What about Solar Farm parking decks?
Pricy – but a double solution.

Do we even know that solar is the best green industry for our area? What is our percentage of average sunshine? I need to find resources so far as what we have the most of naturally that can sustain our energy consumption needs.

Concerning wages – one idea that I keep hearing circulated is local/alt currency, and the possibility of subsidising federal minimun wages to a level of a local living wage through some sort of local circulating currency. It’s a tricky topic, but there have been a lot of good folks who have done much research on it and there seems to be a decent goundswell of support, but no real clear solution. There is going to be an ABC discussion on the possibilities of alternate currency in Sept.

The city needs to examine funding possibilities that are not created through high taxes and empty positions.

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]]> By: Bryan Freeborn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29002 Bryan Freeborn Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:42:34 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29002 My understanding is that 19 positions that were seen as duplicates are the ones that got cut. I can understand reorganization. Times like this make us reevaluate our priorities. It just sucks for those 19 families. My understanding is that 19 positions that were seen as duplicates are the ones that got cut. I can understand reorganization. Times like this make us reevaluate our priorities. It just sucks for those 19 families.

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]]> By: cecil bothwell http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-29000 cecil bothwell Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:06:01 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-29000 Oh, and I wonder if the federal funds we might get will pay for wages. To date, federal money will buy buses but not pay drivers which really puts the city in a bind. Until gas goes up and stays up, Asheville Transit can't demand high enough fares to cover driver wages, so city taxes subsidize them. Doubling the size of the fleet and the frequency on the routes would be wonderful, but that won't float without drivers. Oh, and I wonder if the federal funds we might get will pay for wages. To date, federal money will buy buses but not pay drivers which really puts the city in a bind.

Until gas goes up and stays up, Asheville Transit can’t demand high enough fares to cover driver wages, so city taxes subsidize them. Doubling the size of the fleet and the frequency on the routes would be wonderful, but that won’t float without drivers.

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]]> By: cecil bothwell http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28998 cecil bothwell Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:02:13 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28998 Locke massages numbers very carefully. Definitely not a source for accurate reporting. I agree about safeguarding affordable housing and transit. As I noted in my application for council last fall, we should scrap the Biltmore deck and invest half that much in a solar farm (local jobs, local energy). As for law enforcement and emergency services, I suspect it could be cut somewhat. I'm not clear how much of the burden for homeland security has been passed on to the city, but the preparedness for terrorist attacks that was being used to justify boosts in emergency services (and the new "secure" headquarters) a couple of years ago is bogus. Locke massages numbers very carefully. Definitely not a source for accurate reporting.

I agree about safeguarding affordable housing and transit. As I noted in my application for council last fall, we should scrap the Biltmore deck and invest half that much in a solar farm (local jobs, local energy).

As for law enforcement and emergency services, I suspect it could be cut somewhat. I’m not clear how much of the burden for homeland security has been passed on to the city, but the preparedness for terrorist attacks that was being used to justify boosts in emergency services (and the new “secure” headquarters) a couple of years ago is bogus.

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]]> By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28976 Gordon Smith Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:11:07 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28976 Careful with those John Locke statistics, Jenny. It's my understanding that JLF figures in Sales Tax with these figures. They don't take into account our tourist economy when doing their per capita. That's how it worked last time they released this report. Careful with those John Locke statistics, Jenny. It’s my understanding that JLF figures in Sales Tax with these figures. They don’t take into account our tourist economy when doing their per capita. That’s how it worked last time they released this report.

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]]> By: Jenny Bowen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28975 Jenny Bowen Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:05:07 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28975 Parking decks are a waste of space. If Asheville really is going ahead of the rest of America and grasping onto population space tactics, like that of Euro & Asian cities, then we have to recognize the needs for central biking, pedestrians, mass transit, and small vehicles. Parking decks on the outskirts near the entrance portals into the city are the best use of design. Park and rides -or- walks. I once dreamt that the Civic Center got converted into one of the mega parking decks of the city, and that everyone drove smart cars. Concerning Tom's point - Why not build a conscious community here? We already have a great start. The talent and ideas are bubbling beneath the surface. But with our <a href="http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200990217033" rel="nofollow">property taxes one of the highest</a>, and potentially still <a href="http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009902150334" rel="nofollow">going higher</a>, it doesn't seem like Asheville is too interested in growth. Parking decks are a waste of space.
If Asheville really is going ahead of the rest of America and grasping onto population space tactics, like that of Euro & Asian cities, then we have to recognize the needs for central biking, pedestrians, mass transit, and small vehicles.

Parking decks on the outskirts near the entrance portals into the city are the best use of design. Park and rides -or- walks.

I once dreamt that the Civic Center got converted into one of the mega parking decks of the city, and that everyone drove smart cars.

Concerning Tom’s point –
Why not build a conscious community here? We already have a great start. The talent and ideas are bubbling beneath the surface.
But with our property taxes one of the highest, and potentially still going higher, it doesn’t seem like Asheville is too interested in growth.

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]]> By: Jenny Bowen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28974 Jenny Bowen Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:47:30 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28974 What are the thoughts on Mayor Bellamy meeting with Prez Obama? Is she going after the list that has been printed in the Citizen Times, or do we have any other projects or infrastructure ideas on the table? What are the thoughts on Mayor Bellamy meeting with Prez Obama?
Is she going after the list that has been printed in the Citizen Times, or do we have any other projects or infrastructure ideas on the table?

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]]> By: ObamaTJ http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28973 ObamaTJ Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:02:43 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28973 I agree with you on the parking deck - I just hope they let them repair the streets of downtown that they have been destroying alll winter. And we could stand a few more cops tooling around harassing people. At least, put them on a bike so they can burn off some donuts. I agree with you on the parking deck – I just hope they let them repair the streets of downtown that they have been destroying alll winter. And we could stand a few more cops tooling around harassing people. At least, put them on a bike so they can burn off some donuts.

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]]> By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28972 Gordon Smith Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:32:26 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28972 Johnny, Here's an example - Do away with the money going to build a parking deck on Broadway. Johnny,

Here’s an example – Do away with the money going to build a parking deck on Broadway.

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]]> By: Johnny Lemuria http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28971 Johnny Lemuria Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:29:13 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28971 Why those? And, while I don't expect you to say, "This shouldn't receive any funding", what budgetary categories would you not prioritize too highly, when the chop comes? Why those? And, while I don’t expect you to say, “This shouldn’t receive any funding”, what budgetary categories would you not prioritize too highly, when the chop comes?

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]]> By: Tom Buckner http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2009/02/17/where-theres-smoke-theres-folks-getting-fired/comment-page-1/#comment-28967 Tom Buckner Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:54:19 +0000 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=7254#comment-28967 I'm getting a lot of microtemporal text hallucinations these days. That's my instant technical-sounding term for when the brain substitutes a word for what you read. So I got the phrase "Council for the Hopelessness Advisory Board". MTH's tend to be eggcorns of some sort, in my experience. (Eggcorn is a new but real term: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn" rel="nofollow">see wiki</a>. Funny thing: I was looking at Detroit properties on realtor.com just out of curiosity. A million will buy you almost anything in Detroit, except a few huge apartment buildings. $600K will buy you <a href="http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/450-Keelson-Dr_Detroit_MI_48215_1106542077" rel="nofollow">the waterfront property formerly owned by the Purple Gang</a> (I had to look it up: they were bootleggers, two of whom participated in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre). Are ya fuckin' kiddin' me??!?!??!?!?? It would be easy, right now, if one had a few thousand put back, to grab several trashed properties in Detroit and build an intentional community right in the midst of the blight. Don't worry, I'm not doing it. Just being counterfactual. And since I'm off-topicking: The Nation has a cover article about the man who plans to spend a billion dollars tricking you out of your Social Security. Yes, those goons who broke Wall Street are not done trying to fence off Soc Sec as well: <a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/greider" rel="nofollow">Looting Social Security</a>. I’m getting a lot of microtemporal text hallucinations these days. That’s my instant technical-sounding term for when the brain substitutes a word for what you read. So I got the phrase “Council for the Hopelessness Advisory Board”. MTH’s tend to be eggcorns of some sort, in my experience. (Eggcorn is a new but real term: see wiki.

Funny thing: I was looking at Detroit properties on realtor.com just out of curiosity. A million will buy you almost anything in Detroit, except a few huge apartment buildings. $600K will buy you the waterfront property formerly owned by the Purple Gang (I had to look it up: they were bootleggers, two of whom participated in the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre).

Are ya fuckin’ kiddin’ me??!?!??!?!??
It would be easy, right now, if one had a few thousand put back, to grab several trashed properties in Detroit and build an intentional community right in the midst of the blight. Don’t worry, I’m not doing it. Just being counterfactual.

And since I’m off-topicking: The Nation has a cover article about the man who plans to spend a billion dollars tricking you out of your Social Security. Yes, those goons who broke Wall Street are not done trying to fence off Soc Sec as well: Looting Social Security.

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