Comments on: Gas in Asheville: More Expensive, Short Supply http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Tue, 22 May 2012 23:13:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: bobaloo http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24278 bobaloo Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:18:46 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24278 You're telling me people are waiting in line for an hour for two gallons of gas? I find that hard to believe. You’re telling me people are waiting in line for an hour for two gallons of gas? I find that hard to believe.

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]]> By: Diamond http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24276 Diamond Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:08:13 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24276 I see all of these tales of woe telling the same story. I have lived in Asheville for my entire life. I remember were we had odd and even days to buy a limited amount of fuel in the 70s, the system sucked. People with more then one car just changed the license plates and bouth gas whenever they wanted. Let's face it, it's not the Democrats or the Republicans fault. Put the blame where it belongs, on the oil refineries and the distributors. When winter comes the retail stores have clothing, and other winter items on the shelf, when summer rolls around they have swimwear and sunscreen in good supply. The hurricanes were tracked for days before landfall. So why didn't the refineries ramp up production before the storm? Also why are so many located in vunerable locations? Maybe this will spur some interest. Most likely when fuel is plentyful again, people will go right back to wasting it. Folks just need to buy the amount of fuel they need at this time. I see all of these tales of woe telling the same story. I have lived in Asheville for my entire life. I remember were we had odd and even days to buy a limited amount of fuel in the 70s, the system sucked. People with more then one car just changed the license plates and bouth gas whenever they wanted. Let’s face it, it’s not the Democrats or the Republicans fault. Put the blame where it belongs, on the oil refineries and the distributors. When winter comes the retail stores have clothing, and other winter items on the shelf, when summer rolls around they have swimwear and sunscreen in good supply. The hurricanes were tracked for days before landfall. So why didn’t the refineries ramp up production before the storm? Also why are so many located in vunerable locations? Maybe this will spur some interest. Most likely when fuel is plentyful again, people will go right back to wasting it. Folks just need to buy the amount of fuel they need at this time.

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]]> By: Clarence Young http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24272 Clarence Young Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:17:00 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24272 Holy Moley, TP, I am just a country boy! Holy Moley, TP, I am just a country boy!

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]]> By: Jody http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24264 Jody Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:03:15 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24264 Wait, I like the rationing. I need 5 gallons of gas to power the motorcycle all week, I sell my remaining ration to you. You get more gas and I get a little profit. I see a great decision there in my favor, Tim; you get a forced government solution with a little hat tip to free enterprise. Wait, I like the rationing. I need 5 gallons of gas to power the motorcycle all week, I sell my remaining ration to you. You get more gas and I get a little profit.

I see a great decision there in my favor, Tim; you get a forced government solution with a little hat tip to free enterprise.

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]]> By: Clarence Young http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24257 Clarence Young Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:17:48 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24257 bobaloo: <blockquote>Clarence: How is a gas station limiting the amount people can buy at one time any different in “force” than an $8 a gallon price? I’m not talking a government mandated ration, I’m talking self-regulation.</blockquote> Okay. If the government or no other force mandates the limiting of gas, then there is no force. Let me try this another way. Station receives gas and sells it all within five hours at $4.50. Station receives more gas next day and sells it all within four hours at $5. Station receives more gas next day and sells it all within three hours at $5.50. Station receives more gas next day and does not run out of gas at $6. Station drops price to $5.75 and has a hundred gallons of gas when next delivery is made. Gas has found its value. No single person or government bureau could figure this out in advance. There are too many variables. Let's do some present time consciousness thinking here. When you wrap yourself around a certain outcome, you are bound to be disappointed for you will rarely if ever achieve it. Your life will become bliss if you can learn acceptance and understanding of natural flow. bobaloo:

Clarence: How is a gas station limiting the amount people can buy at one time any different in “force” than an $8 a gallon price? I’m not talking a government mandated ration, I’m talking self-regulation.

Okay. If the government or no other force mandates the limiting of gas, then there is no force.

Let me try this another way.

Station receives gas and sells it all within five hours at $4.50.

Station receives more gas next day and sells it all within four hours at $5.

Station receives more gas next day and sells it all within three hours at $5.50.

Station receives more gas next day and does not run out of gas at $6.

Station drops price to $5.75 and has a hundred gallons of gas when next delivery is made. Gas has found its value.

No single person or government bureau could figure this out in advance. There are too many variables.

Let’s do some present time consciousness thinking here.

When you wrap yourself around a certain outcome, you are bound to be disappointed for you will rarely if ever achieve it.

Your life will become bliss if you can learn acceptance and understanding of natural flow.

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24251 Tim Peck Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:33:34 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24251 bobaloo says: <blockquote>Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?</blockquote> Rationing can make sense in certain instances, such as concert ticket sales. But it is a poor substitute for the effectiveness of pricing in a free commodities market. The key problem with rationing is that it is arbitrary: Who will use what formula to determine which consumers deserve how much gas for which uses and for how long? No one has this information. These are all functions of a free market that are circumvented by an arbitrary, coercive and ultimately unfair contrivance. Rationing takes away the decision-making power of individuals. With freely fluctuating prices, individuals remain free to make economic decisions that best suit their conditions and abilities. Individuals are the better decision-makers in this case, not central planners. bobaloo says:

Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?

Rationing can make sense in certain instances, such as concert ticket sales. But it is a poor substitute for the effectiveness of pricing in a free commodities market.

The key problem with rationing is that it is arbitrary: Who will use what formula to determine which consumers deserve how much gas for which uses and for how long? No one has this information. These are all functions of a free market that are circumvented by an arbitrary, coercive and ultimately unfair contrivance.

Rationing takes away the decision-making power of individuals. With freely fluctuating prices, individuals remain free to make economic decisions that best suit their conditions and abilities. Individuals are the better decision-makers in this case, not central planners.

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24249 Tim Peck Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:29:47 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24249 bobaloo says: <blockquote>Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?<blockquote> Rationing can make sense in certain instances, such as concert ticket sales. But it is a poor substitute for the effectiveness of pricing in a free commodities market. The key problem with rationing is that it is arbitrary: Who will use what formula to determine which consumers deserve how much gas for which uses and for how long? No one has this information. These are all functions of a free market that are circumvented by an arbitrary, coercive and ultimately unfair contrivance. Rationing takes away the decision-making power of individuals. With freely fluctuating prices, individuals remain free to make economic decisions that best suit their conditions and abilities. Individuals are the better decision-makers in this case, not central planners. bobaloo says:

Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?

Rationing can make sense in certain instances, such as concert ticket sales. But it is a poor substitute for the effectiveness of pricing in a free commodities market.

The key problem with rationing is that it is arbitrary: Who will use what formula to determine which consumers deserve how much gas for which uses and for how long? No one has this information. These are all functions of a free market that are circumvented by an arbitrary, coercive and ultimately unfair contrivance.

Rationing takes away the decision-making power of individuals. With freely fluctuating prices, individuals remain free to make economic decisions that best suit their conditions and abilities. Individuals are the better decision-makers in this case, not central planners.

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]]> By: bobaloo http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24247 bobaloo Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:16:03 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24247 <blockquote>How do you propose to regulate gas purchases? If you went even/odd days or limited purchases to X gallons at a time, what is to stop someone from stopping at more than one place?</blockquote> The Cornerstore in Weaverville had a $20 limit, prepay only. It's not that frickin hard. And there was still a long line, so I suspect that would dissuade people from going to multiple places. Clarence: How is a gas station limiting the amount people can buy at one time any different in "force" than an $8 a gallon price? I'm not talking a government mandated ration, I'm talking self-regulation.

How do you propose to regulate gas purchases? If you went even/odd days or limited purchases to X gallons at a time, what is to stop someone from stopping at more than one place?

The Cornerstore in Weaverville had a $20 limit, prepay only. It’s not that frickin hard.
And there was still a long line, so I suspect that would dissuade people from going to multiple places.

Clarence: How is a gas station limiting the amount people can buy at one time any different in “force” than an $8 a gallon price? I’m not talking a government mandated ration, I’m talking self-regulation.

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]]> By: Clarence Young http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24245 Clarence Young Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:52:24 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24245 Bobaloo says: <blockquote>Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense? </blockquote> Respectfully, no. "Not allowing" is force. It denies the entire premise-concept of unfettered (I call unfettered "completely free.") self-regulation. The failure with your premise is that some will bribe the dealers for extra allotments. All the dealer has to do is “adapt” to the situation to favor some over others. We have been given a gift and some seem determined to manipulate it so that it won't work. Supply and demand evens out very quickly in tight situations and more slowly when there is not a crunch. A partially blown up balloon will always expand wherever it can. A balloon blown up tight will simply explode if squeezed too hard. Our economy has been manipulated and adjusted and fine-tuned into a balloon ready to burst. We are being handed some fantastic lessons of all kinds right now. We will either see them or blow ourselves up. Bobaloo says:

Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?

Respectfully, no.

“Not allowing” is force. It denies the entire premise-concept of unfettered (I call unfettered “completely free.”) self-regulation.

The failure with your premise is that some will bribe the dealers for extra allotments. All the dealer has to do is “adapt” to the situation to favor some over others.

We have been given a gift and some seem determined to manipulate it so that it won’t work.

Supply and demand evens out very quickly in tight situations and more slowly when there is not a crunch.

A partially blown up balloon will always expand wherever it can.
A balloon blown up tight will simply explode if squeezed too hard.

Our economy has been manipulated and adjusted and fine-tuned into a balloon ready to burst.

We are being handed some fantastic lessons of all kinds right now. We will either see them or blow ourselves up.

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]]> By: Jody http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24238 Jody Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:37:02 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24238 I'm glad this has happened. Some argue for an organizational or supply change and this is a decent immediate response but I'll explain my point of view as I did to a friend back in the spring: "People are freaking over gas prices, but the real problem will occur when it is not available at any price or is rationed." While 'Peak Oil' as a concept is debatable, it is fairly obvious that 'peak production' or 'peak distribution' is obviously real. I’m glad this has happened. Some argue for an organizational or supply change and this is a decent immediate response but I’ll explain my point of view as I did to a friend back in the spring: “People are freaking over gas prices, but the real problem will occur when it is not available at any price or is rationed.”

While ‘Peak Oil’ as a concept is debatable, it is fairly obvious that ‘peak production’ or ‘peak distribution’ is obviously real.

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]]> By: Gratuitous http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24236 Gratuitous Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:07:11 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24236 My ex-wife was in a long line this morning, and a lady managed to cut in front of her. Many people started shouting at the offender, even some getting out of their cars to tap on her window and assuring her she will be denied when she gets up there. She wouldn't budge. When she got to the pump and went in to prepay, I think she must have been told to apologize to the person behind her, which she did, and proceeded to pump. I wonder if she had a good sob story? A sick baby might work. Who knows, it could even be true. But it's a dangerous game regardless. My ex-wife was in a long line this morning, and a lady managed to cut in front of her. Many people started shouting at the offender, even some getting out of their cars to tap on her window and assuring her she will be denied when she gets up there. She wouldn’t budge. When she got to the pump and went in to prepay, I think she must have been told to apologize to the person behind her, which she did, and proceeded to pump. I wonder if she had a good sob story? A sick baby might work. Who knows, it could even be true. But it’s a dangerous game regardless.

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]]> By: Anne http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24235 Anne Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:37:43 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24235 So if we know that our area has some challenges in getting gasoline to us, I'd love to see one of our elected "leaders" investigate this and figure out some mechanisms that pro-actively lessen this problem next time. We are one hour north of Spartanburg, two hours east of Charlotte. They all get gas. There are major highways connecting us. Why do our leaders allow our region to be repeatedly thrown into a third world crisis situation with every big storm? First world taxes and real estate, third world fuel infrastructure, absent leadership. Hear the crickets chirping... So if we know that our area has some challenges in getting gasoline to us, I’d love to see one of our elected “leaders” investigate this and figure out some mechanisms that pro-actively lessen this problem next time.

We are one hour north of Spartanburg, two hours east of Charlotte. They all get gas. There are major highways connecting us. Why do our leaders allow our region to be repeatedly thrown into a third world crisis situation with every big storm?

First world taxes and real estate, third world fuel infrastructure, absent leadership. Hear the crickets chirping…

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]]> By: bobaloo http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24234 bobaloo Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:16:44 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24234 Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn't this make as much sense? Clarence, the market could still self-regulate by not allowing people to buy unlimited gas. Doesn’t this make as much sense?

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]]> By: rip http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24232 rip Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:08:32 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24232 Arrest poor people that don't carpool. We need our poor people at work! Arrest poor people that don’t carpool. We need our poor people at work!

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]]> By: Mr. Yuck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24227 Mr. Yuck Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:44:44 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24227 It's possible that some of us draw on the experiences of the people we know when we make statements about the poor. That we feel emotionally connected to people we know...Well that's just the darnest thing about the human condition and it sets us up to lose under the most dystopian of scenarios. It’s possible that some of us draw on the experiences of the people we know when we make statements about the poor. That we feel emotionally connected to people we know…Well that’s just the darnest thing about the human condition and it sets us up to lose under the most dystopian of scenarios.

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]]> By: Clarence Young http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24226 Clarence Young Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:18:32 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24226 You all have good points. I was just pushing some buttons there and I should not have. However, I figured something out tonight while ripping out carpet strips and millions of tiny staples from the carpet removal job I'm doing. I figured out that I need to quit goading people. I need to be more touchy feely when I write. I remembered that most everyone here has good intentions. There's a road that goes there or close to there. :) But mostly, I figured out at least one reason for the “disconnects” that occurred today. Most of the people here, being of good intentions, seem to relate everything to the poor. Now this poses a problem. When someone makes a statement, instead of immediately asking how this affects the poor, ask the question, "Could this possibly be true and if it is, is it good or bad for the poor?" I believe that what I said is absolutely true. If it is true, how does it affect the poor? It costs the poor more to go to work if they drive a car. It doesn't cost them any more if they are walking, riding bikes or buses. So, not all the poor are affected. It helps the poor who drive in the following ways. The system we have now has given us no gas. Many people will not earn anything today because of this. If they paid higher gas prices and could buy the gas, then they would make a wage today. Again, the first question to ask is not how this affects the poor. The first question is to ask if this could possibly be true. By not asking the right questions you are stuck with what you have. By relying upon your emotions, you have actually harmed the poor. I have offered you a better way. You all have good points. I was just pushing some buttons there and I should not have.

However, I figured something out tonight while ripping out carpet strips and millions of tiny staples from the carpet removal job I’m doing.

I figured out that I need to quit goading people. I need to be more touchy feely when I write.

I remembered that most everyone here has good intentions. There’s a road that goes there or close to there. :)

But mostly, I figured out at least one reason for the “disconnects” that occurred today.

Most of the people here, being of good intentions, seem to relate everything to the poor. Now this poses a problem.

When someone makes a statement, instead of immediately asking how this affects the poor, ask the question, “Could this possibly be true and if it is, is it good or bad for the poor?”

I believe that what I said is absolutely true. If it is true, how does it affect the poor?

It costs the poor more to go to work if they drive a car. It doesn’t cost them any more if they are walking, riding bikes or buses. So, not all the poor are affected.

It helps the poor who drive in the following ways. The system we have now has given us no gas. Many people will not earn anything today because of this. If they paid higher gas prices and could buy the gas, then they would make a wage today.

Again, the first question to ask is not how this affects the poor. The first question is to ask if this could possibly be true.

By not asking the right questions you are stuck with what you have. By relying upon your emotions, you have actually harmed the poor. I have offered you a better way.

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]]> By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24225 Gordon Smith Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:48:52 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24225 Strap 'em on, man! Popcorn's got all the gas we need! Strap ‘em on, man! Popcorn’s got all the gas we need!

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]]> By: shadmarsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24223 shadmarsh Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:35:51 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24223 <blockquote>You are aware that Buncombe County has a lot of rural areas, yes? If so, kindly explain how a Weaverville construction worker gets to a Fairview job on a bicycle.</blockquote> In an ambulance, after he is run over by Billy Joe Gunrack/ or lost Floridiots....Or he could just strap sum rockets on that bitch!

You are aware that Buncombe County has a lot of rural areas, yes? If so, kindly explain how a Weaverville construction worker gets to a Fairview job on a bicycle.

In an ambulance, after he is run over by Billy Joe Gunrack/ or lost Floridiots….Or he could just strap sum rockets on that bitch!

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]]> By: bobaloo http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24220 bobaloo Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:40:30 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24220 <blockquote>If the poor get a used bicycle, they can go to work for nothing.</blockquote> You are aware that Buncombe County has a lot of rural areas, yes? If so, kindly explain how a Weaverville construction worker gets to a Fairview job on a bicycle.

If the poor get a used bicycle, they can go to work for nothing.

You are aware that Buncombe County has a lot of rural areas, yes? If so, kindly explain how a Weaverville construction worker gets to a Fairview job on a bicycle.

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]]> By: randallt http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/09/23/gas-in-asheville-more-expensive-short-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-24219 randallt Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:19:19 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=6076#comment-24219 Thanks Anne, I am already seeing a lot of cars on the side of the road. Quite a few people won't make it to work tomorrow. Who is going to address this? I drove down the mountain to Marion from Asheville and waited along with dozens for the fuel truck to arrive at the Truck Stop at sugar Hill Rd. I only waited about an hour and was lucky in that I was third in line for one of the 20 pumps. As I was leaving around 6:30, it was getting a little crazy with the traffic and people driving across ditches and grass and stopping on the side of the road. $50 limit and a lot of gas cans. Thanks Anne, I am already seeing a lot of cars on the side of the road. Quite a few people won’t make it to work tomorrow. Who is going to address this?

I drove down the mountain to Marion from Asheville and waited along with dozens for the fuel truck to arrive at the Truck Stop at sugar Hill Rd. I only waited about an hour and was lucky in that I was third in line for one of the 20 pumps. As I was leaving around 6:30, it was getting a little crazy with the traffic and people driving across ditches and grass and stopping on the side of the road. $50 limit and a lot of gas cans.

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