Comments on: Asheville City Council Campaign Fundraising By The Numbers http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Mon, 21 May 2012 20:21:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ecthompson http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18224 ecthompson Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:10:07 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18224 We need election reform. This numbers yell that from the top of the trees. BTW, why hasn't ACT published this information? I'm just askin'. We need election reform. This numbers yell that from the top of the trees.

BTW, why hasn’t ACT published this information? I’m just askin’.

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]]> By: Jim http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18105 Jim Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:49:37 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18105 I hope folks show up! -- Jim *********************** Asheville City Council Regular Meeting February 12, 2008 - 5:00 p.m. City Hall Building, Council Chamber Proposal to create a Citizens Commission on Local Elections To: Mayor Bellamy and Members of Asheville City Council From: Councilman Brownie Newman There are a number of suggestions that have been discussed by City Council and within the community about ways to improve or strengthen our local elections in Asheville. I would like to propose the formation of a Citizens Commission on Local Elections in Asheville to take a look at these questions. The Commission would be charged with analyzing the pros and cons of these issues, solicit input from the community, and develop recommendations for City Council and, where authorizing legislation may be necessary, our legislative delegation. The Commission would be charged with considering the following questions: I. Should Asheville City Council adopt some form of public financing or other campaign finance reform measures for municipal elections? II. Should Asheville City Council seats be elected all at-large or include districts? III. What would be the pros and cons of using Instant Runoff Voting in Asheville elections? IV. How should City Council make appointments to fill vacancies on the Council (which typically occur when a sitting member of Council is elected Mayor)? V. Are their other reforms in our local elections process that should be considered? If Council believes such a Citizens Commission would be of benefit, I recommend we appoint a 7-9 member citizens group to consider these questions, with the goal of reporting back to Council by the end of the year. Thank you for considering this proposal. I hope folks show up!
– Jim
***********************

Asheville City Council
Regular Meeting
February 12, 2008 – 5:00 p.m.
City Hall Building, Council Chamber
Proposal to create a Citizens Commission on Local
Elections

To: Mayor Bellamy and Members of Asheville City Council
From: Councilman Brownie Newman

There are a number of suggestions that have been discussed by City Council
and within the community about ways to improve or strengthen our local
elections in Asheville. I would like to propose the formation of a Citizens
Commission on Local Elections in Asheville to take a look at these questions.
The Commission would be charged with analyzing the pros and cons of these
issues, solicit input from the community, and develop recommendations for
City Council and, where authorizing legislation may be necessary, our
legislative delegation.

The Commission would be charged with considering the following questions:

I. Should Asheville City Council adopt some form of public financing or
other campaign finance reform measures for municipal elections?

II. Should Asheville City Council seats be elected all at-large or include
districts?

III. What would be the pros and cons of using Instant Runoff Voting in
Asheville elections?

IV. How should City Council make appointments to fill vacancies on the
Council (which typically occur when a sitting member of Council is
elected Mayor)?

V. Are their other reforms in our local elections process that should be
considered?

If Council believes such a Citizens Commission would be of benefit, I
recommend we appoint a 7-9 member citizens group to consider these
questions, with the goal of reporting back to Council by the end of the year.

Thank you for considering this proposal.

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]]> By: Jake Quinn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18045 Jake Quinn Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:11:34 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18045 David, Yes, working together like as a party. I have a good deal of respect for the power of party politics and recognize the benefits to be gained by working within a party. I'm glad to see Tim Peck's post that the City Council will be discussing a proposal to create a citizens commision on local elections (thanks, Tim!). Better late than never. I hope it will be charged to investigate all dimensions of our civic electoral process, that it will develop good information for the community, and that it will lead to improvements. David,

Yes, working together like as a party. I have a good deal of respect for the power of party politics and recognize the benefits to be gained by working within a party.

I’m glad to see Tim Peck’s post that the City Council will be discussing a proposal to create a citizens commision on local elections (thanks, Tim!). Better late than never. I hope it will be charged to investigate all dimensions of our civic electoral process, that it will develop good information for the community, and that it will lead to improvements.

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18039 Tim Peck Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:06:47 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18039 <blockquote>Now, let’s see what we can do as a community to improve our municipal election processes.</blockquote> On city council's agenda: Asheville City Council Regular Meeting February 12, 2008 - 5:00 p.m. City Hall Building, Council Chamber [...] VI. NEW BUSINESS: A. <a href="http://www.ashevillenc.gov/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=10550" rel="nofollow">Proposal to create a Citizens Commission on Local Elections</a>.

Now, let’s see what we can do as a community to improve our municipal election processes.

On city council’s agenda:

Asheville City Council
Regular Meeting
February 12, 2008 – 5:00 p.m.
City Hall Building, Council Chamber

[...]

VI. NEW BUSINESS:

A. Proposal to create a Citizens Commission on Local Elections.

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]]> By: David Roat http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18025 David Roat Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:57:34 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18025 Jake, So you want us to work together-like as a 'party'? Hmmmm. Jake,

So you want us to work together-like as a ‘party’? Hmmmm.

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]]> By: David Roat http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18024 David Roat Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:55:26 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18024 CM, Thank you for that clarification. Progressives usually do get more votes per dollar. I think that the main reason that Brownie lost to Davis has a lot to do with the unprecedented lopsided media bias on the partisan election issue. Also, Davis got a free pass on rebranding himself as a moderate. While Davis is not a rabid nonconservative, he is certainly a conservative. We definitely need to do a better job of writing letters to the editors of MountainX, AC-T and City Paper. And we need to do it year-round. Other than that, I think that we are fundamentally in good shape for '09 if we can recruit committed candidates that have some experience in civic policy. CM,

Thank you for that clarification. Progressives usually do get more votes per dollar. I think that the main reason that Brownie lost to Davis has a lot to do with the unprecedented lopsided media bias on the partisan election issue. Also, Davis got a free pass on rebranding himself as a moderate. While Davis is not a rabid nonconservative, he is certainly a conservative.

We definitely need to do a better job of writing letters to the editors of MountainX, AC-T and City Paper. And we need to do it year-round. Other than that, I think that we are fundamentally in good shape for ’09 if we can recruit committed candidates that have some experience in civic policy.

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]]> By: Jake Quinn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18023 Jake Quinn Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:04:37 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18023 Oops! And I neglected to factor in the $76.45 refund we received from our direct mail vendor when we sent out fewer postacrds than expected. The way Raleigh wants us to account for such activity inflates the bottom line (instead of netting the refund from the original expense, we report the full expense and then reflect the refund as revenue). That makes the total avaiable $15,084.90, and our cost-per-vote $2.99. Yes, one does need to normalize one's data. Oops! And I neglected to factor in the $76.45 refund we received from our direct mail vendor when we sent out fewer postacrds than expected. The way Raleigh wants us to account for such activity inflates the bottom line (instead of netting the refund from the original expense, we report the full expense and then reflect the refund as revenue). That makes the total avaiable $15,084.90, and our cost-per-vote $2.99.

Yes, one does need to normalize one’s data.

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]]> By: Jake Quinn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18018 Jake Quinn Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:50:24 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18018 Gordon, It's not that I have better info, it's just that I'm a numbers guy and I know these reports. The reason you don't have an accurate count of Brownie's donors <$50 is because he didn't file all of his CRO-1205 forms that you relied on. I looked at his final CRO-1100 for the total amount that would have been reported on those forms (in this case, $3,905), and divided by $50 (the maximum contribution allowed on the CRO-1205) to determine that there had to have been at least 79 small contributors. I'm confident Brownie actually had over 100 small contributors. This is not to criticize Brownie's reports, but to point out that one has to exercise a bit of caution when using the data. And that's true of any data, not just this campaign finance stuff. Here's another wrinkle to consider: the amount raised by a campaign can be greater than the amount actually available to the campaign, and it can affect the cost-per-vote calculation. It's the loans. In the case of Elaine's campaign, the total amount raised was $16,061.35. But that included a $900 loan that was repaid. So the campaign actually had $15,161.35 that was contributed, and that, I believe, is the correct figure to use in the cost-per-vote calculation. FWIW, it lowers the estimate in Elaine's case to $3.01 from $3.18. See what I mean about these numbers? And trust me, I could go on. Suffice it to say that we would do well to identify information developed from campaign finance reports as "estimates." And again, hearty THANK YOU for all your estimatin'. Gordon,

It’s not that I have better info, it’s just that I’m a numbers guy and I know these reports. The reason you don’t have an accurate count of Brownie’s donors <$50 is because he didn’t file all of his CRO-1205 forms that you relied on. I looked at his final CRO-1100 for the total amount that would have been reported on those forms (in this case, $3,905), and divided by $50 (the maximum contribution allowed on the CRO-1205) to determine that there had to have been at least 79 small contributors. I’m confident Brownie actually had over 100 small contributors. This is not to criticize Brownie’s reports, but to point out that one has to exercise a bit of caution when using the data. And that’s true of any data, not just this campaign finance stuff.

Here’s another wrinkle to consider: the amount raised by a campaign can be greater than the amount actually available to the campaign, and it can affect the cost-per-vote calculation. It’s the loans. In the case of Elaine’s campaign, the total amount raised was $16,061.35. But that included a $900 loan that was repaid. So the campaign actually had $15,161.35 that was contributed, and that, I believe, is the correct figure to use in the cost-per-vote calculation. FWIW, it lowers the estimate in Elaine’s case to $3.01 from $3.18.

See what I mean about these numbers? And trust me, I could go on. Suffice it to say that we would do well to identify information developed from campaign finance reports as “estimates.” And again, hearty THANK YOU for all your estimatin’.

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]]> By: Doug Gibson http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18015 Doug Gibson Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:14:13 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18015 <blockquote>I think we need to decide if we want elections to continue this inflationary and special interest trend or if we’re going to move towards election reform.</blockquote> Yeah, that's especially germane given that we've got two county commission seats (at least) up for grabs this year. Given what these folks spent in Asheville, one can only speculate how much they'll give to stay on top in the county.

I think we need to decide if we want elections to continue this inflationary and special interest trend or if we’re going to move towards election reform.

Yeah, that’s especially germane given that we’ve got two county commission seats (at least) up for grabs this year. Given what these folks spent in Asheville, one can only speculate how much they’ll give to stay on top in the county.

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]]> By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18013 Gordon Smith Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:40:09 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18013 Jake, I wondered about how to quantify those small donors, especially when that's the kind of money that often is stuffed into some sort of bucket at small-dollar fundraiser/public appearances. To clarify - the numbers I listed as small donor donations are from the itemized lists on the filing reports. If you have better info - please share it. I think we need to decide if we want elections to continue this inflationary and special interest trend or if we're going to move towards election reform. Jake,

I wondered about how to quantify those small donors, especially when that’s the kind of money that often is stuffed into some sort of bucket at small-dollar fundraiser/public appearances. To clarify – the numbers I listed as small donor donations are from the itemized lists on the filing reports. If you have better info – please share it.

I think we need to decide if we want elections to continue this inflationary and special interest trend or if we’re going to move towards election reform.

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]]> By: Jake Quinn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18012 Jake Quinn Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:33:58 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18012 My, my... wher to begin... Well, first a big THANKS to Gordon for posting this information. As we move forward as a community, we have the opportunity to determine how best to manage our civic elections. Seeing this info, I think many may better appreciate the importance of having this discussion soon. I am Elaine Lite's campaign treasurer, so I probably have a greater appreciation than most for this campaign finance data. Please be careful when using this stuff, because it can be tricky figuring what's really going on. For example, I am confident that Brownie had significantly more than the 46 contributors of $50-or-less cited by Gordon. As he reported aggregating $3905 from such contributors, there had to be at least 79 of them. But while I happen to concur with CM, above, in the belief that Mr. Newman is a valuable member of the City Council, Brownie does make it a chore to figure out some of his filings with the BOE. In other words, don't blame Gordon for the "46". And FYI, I suspect that there are other challenges in making strict apples-to-apples comparisons across the six campaigns. But please do not let this detract from the importance of these disclosures and public discussion of them. On a more personal note, I must express my puzzlement and disappointment in Mr. Roat's take on CM's post, and the apparent hostility of his tone. One of my enduring regrets about the City Council campaign will be the inability of the three progressive candidates' campaigns to work together. We need to change that going forward, but doing so requires getting over our past disappointments. As regards "sniping" at our "most progressive council members" by Elaine Lite and her supporters, well, I think Mr. Roat should get a couple of things straight. First of all, Elaine hasn't been involved in any election post mortems that I'm aware of, she hasn't talked to any Council members since the election, and she hasn't been "sniping" at anyone, so please don't drag her into this. In other words, please stop your own sniping! Second, please re-read my previous paragraph and join me in moving ahead. Again, props to Gordon for creating this information from the campaigns' financial disclosure reports, and for putting it into circulation. Now, let's see what we can do as a community to improve our municipal election processes. My, my… wher to begin…

Well, first a big THANKS to Gordon for posting this information. As we move forward as a community, we have the opportunity to determine how best to manage our civic elections. Seeing this info, I think many may better appreciate the importance of having this discussion soon.

I am Elaine Lite’s campaign treasurer, so I probably have a greater appreciation than most for this campaign finance data. Please be careful when using this stuff, because it can be tricky figuring what’s really going on. For example, I am confident that Brownie had significantly more than the 46 contributors of $50-or-less cited by Gordon. As he reported aggregating $3905 from such contributors, there had to be at least 79 of them. But while I happen to concur with CM, above, in the belief that Mr. Newman is a valuable member of the City Council, Brownie does make it a chore to figure out some of his filings with the BOE. In other words, don’t blame Gordon for the “46″. And FYI, I suspect that there are other challenges in making strict apples-to-apples comparisons across the six campaigns. But please do not let this detract from the importance of these disclosures and public discussion of them.

On a more personal note, I must express my puzzlement and disappointment in Mr. Roat’s take on CM’s post, and the apparent hostility of his tone. One of my enduring regrets about the City Council campaign will be the inability of the three progressive candidates’ campaigns to work together. We need to change that going forward, but doing so requires getting over our past disappointments.

As regards “sniping” at our “most progressive council members” by Elaine Lite and her supporters, well, I think Mr. Roat should get a couple of things straight. First of all, Elaine hasn’t been involved in any election post mortems that I’m aware of, she hasn’t talked to any Council members since the election, and she hasn’t been “sniping” at anyone, so please don’t drag her into this. In other words, please stop your own sniping! Second, please re-read my previous paragraph and join me in moving ahead.

Again, props to Gordon for creating this information from the campaigns’ financial disclosure reports, and for putting it into circulation. Now, let’s see what we can do as a community to improve our municipal election processes.

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]]> By: Heather Rayburn http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18011 Heather Rayburn Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:15:23 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18011 Excellent work, Gordon! Excellent work, Gordon!

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]]> By: Ashvegas http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18010 Ashvegas Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:56:55 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18010 nice post! nice post!

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]]> By: Doug Gibson http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18009 Doug Gibson Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:42:32 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18009 You, know, I was trying to come here from Gordon's e-mail, and when I couldn't, the DOS attack was pretty much the first thing I thought of. You, know, I was trying to come here from Gordon’s e-mail, and when I couldn’t, the DOS attack was pretty much the first thing I thought of.

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]]> By: Admin Hooligan http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18007 Admin Hooligan Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:25:40 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18007 Contrary to popular belief, the downtime that we just experienced was not caused by a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack" rel="nofollow">DOS attack</a> launched by the Committee for Fair and Balanced Elections. Someone just forgot to feed the hamster that operates the treadmill attached to our server. Sorry about that, folks... Contrary to popular belief, the downtime that we just experienced was not caused by a DOS attack launched by the Committee for Fair and Balanced Elections. Someone just forgot to feed the hamster that operates the treadmill attached to our server.

Sorry about that, folks…

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]]> By: cm1165 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18005 cm1165 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:19:04 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18005 Let me clarify, David, I was not sniping at Newman. I have a great deal of respect for Brownie. I was mentioning his fund raising, in particular dollar per candidate as compared to Davis, as a potential weakness, which is a PROBLEM for all progressives. If there is an explanation for why, as an incumbent, Newman needed to spend almost twice as much as the other incumbent for 1,000 fewer voters. I see this as something that needs to be shored up. I see the future of the City being directly tied to Newman and the other progressives on the council, which means that if/when I see an issue, I think that it needs to be addressed, so that in four years we don't get our ass handed to us like we did this year. CM Let me clarify, David, I was not sniping at Newman. I have a great deal of respect for Brownie. I was mentioning his fund raising, in particular dollar per candidate as compared to Davis, as a potential weakness, which is a PROBLEM for all progressives.

If there is an explanation for why, as an incumbent, Newman needed to spend almost twice as much as the other incumbent for 1,000 fewer voters. I see this as something that needs to be shored up. I see the future of the City being directly tied to Newman and the other progressives on the council, which means that if/when I see an issue, I think that it needs to be addressed, so that in four years we don’t get our ass handed to us like we did this year.

CM

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]]> By: Gordon Smith http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18004 Gordon Smith Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:53:54 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18004 I was really impressed with the number of smaller donors Brownie had. I was also surprised to see that Davis donated to Butner and Russell but not to Newman or Freeborn. Charles Worley, Joe Dunn, and Carl Mumpower all donated to Davis' campaign. Davis spent more on his Asheville Tribune ads than he did his Mountain Xpress ads. Let me restate something for the benefit of those who can't separate facts from inferences. Big Development and Republicans supported certain candidates because they felt that these candidates would best represent their interests. This is not about anyone's integrity. Until we see some more votes and trends, it would be irresponsible to assume that Russell is in the bag for Big Development. They assumed that he was their best candidate, but we'll have to wait and see. Just as I felt Elaine Lite, Bryan Freeborn, and Brownie Newman would best represent my interests, Big Development felt about Davis, Russell, and Butner. I was really impressed with the number of smaller donors Brownie had. I was also surprised to see that Davis donated to Butner and Russell but not to Newman or Freeborn. Charles Worley, Joe Dunn, and Carl Mumpower all donated to Davis’ campaign. Davis spent more on his Asheville Tribune ads than he did his Mountain Xpress ads.

Let me restate something for the benefit of those who can’t separate facts from inferences. Big Development and Republicans supported certain candidates because they felt that these candidates would best represent their interests. This is not about anyone’s integrity. Until we see some more votes and trends, it would be irresponsible to assume that Russell is in the bag for Big Development. They assumed that he was their best candidate, but we’ll have to wait and see. Just as I felt Elaine Lite, Bryan Freeborn, and Brownie Newman would best represent my interests, Big Development felt about Davis, Russell, and Butner.

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]]> By: shad marsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18003 shad marsh Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:32:25 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18003 Bree, what an enlightened comment... Bree,

what an enlightened comment…

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]]> By: David Roat http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18002 David Roat Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:32:12 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18002 Brownie has been working hard in this community for this community for a long time. That's why he was able to fundraise so well. This is a good thing. I honestly do not understand why Elaine Lite and her supporters think that it is productive to snipe at our most progressive council members. Brownie has been working hard in this community for this community for a long time. That’s why he was able to fundraise so well. This is a good thing.

I honestly do not understand why Elaine Lite and her supporters think that it is productive to snipe at our most progressive council members.

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]]> By: cm1165 http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2008/02/08/city-council-fundraising/comment-page-1/#comment-18000 cm1165 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:12:55 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4835#comment-18000 When I look at these numbers, what bothers me is the amount that Newman had to spend to get back on the council, esp compared to Davis. This tells me that there might be a problem somewhere, but it only points to it. What is very encouraging is the numbers that surround Elaine and Freeborn. They spent far less than Butner and Russell, yet came within striking distance of them. In particular look at the amount that Russell had to spend to get 540 more votes than Elaine (I don't know why I refer to her by her first name and the others their last. Maybe it is that I met her and worked [a little] for her.) Anyway, I think that for progressives there is a lot of hope that can be pulled from these numbers. What this show us is that it is possible to elect a solidly progressive City Council, and it should not take us as much money as Russell had to spend to get his current seat. CM When I look at these numbers, what bothers me is the amount that Newman had to spend to get back on the council, esp compared to Davis. This tells me that there might be a problem somewhere, but it only points to it.

What is very encouraging is the numbers that surround Elaine and Freeborn. They spent far less than Butner and Russell, yet came within striking distance of them. In particular look at the amount that Russell had to spend to get 540 more votes than Elaine (I don’t know why I refer to her by her first name and the others their last. Maybe it is that I met her and worked [a little] for her.)

Anyway, I think that for progressives there is a lot of hope that can be pulled from these numbers. What this show us is that it is possible to elect a solidly progressive City Council, and it should not take us as much money as Russell had to spend to get his current seat.

CM

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