Whining Whiners Whine About Recount
By
Bryan Freeborn is going to put the reliability of our voting system to the test.
Per metropolitan superstar, Ashvegas, Freeborn is asking for a “hand-eye” recount of 3 percent of the total vote that he and Russell garnered. That means the elections board will randomly select two precincts and tally, by hand, each and every ballot. The recount will be scheduled some time after Thanksgiving.
Freeborn’s entitled under the law to this additional count, according to Joel Burgess at the AC-T,
“That is because a Friday electronic recount showed different numbers than the official tally, Brown said.If there is another discrepency the councilman might have the right to call for a hand recount of all ballots”
Being well within the law and using the system as it was designed doesn’t impress the right wing attack dogs at the AC-T comment thread.
Imagine if the real estate Republican candidate was asking for a recount when the margin is fewer than 70 votes, when the canvass differed from the original count, when the rescan differed from both of the other counts, when the law provides for a 3% sample to verify the rescan and another safeguard after that if the numbers remain uncertain.
…And remember that these many of these commenters are the people who wanted to “Let Asheville Vote”.
“This is just pitiful.” – Wow[...]
“Bow out honorably brother….you are not wanted in government.” – Truckin
[...]
“The only thing this jerk should run for is the COUNTY LINE…bye bye cry baby.” – Ken Jarvis
[...]
“Guess his momma never taught him to be graceful and say, the best man won, and then try again the next time.” – Ticker
[...]
“Isn’t it about time for this blustering jerk to go
…..And to take his illegal city board appointments of his cronies
……AND……his leaning on city staff to give the organization for whom his wife and friends work
no-bid city contracts,with him?!?!” – TerraBob
[...]
“He lost – he needs to quit spending our money on recounts! What part of you were NOT elected does he not understand?” – Voter
[...]
“This is the kind of thing I would expect from a spoiled liberal crybaby. Get over it, you were NEVER elected to start with and you still lost being an active appointed city councilman.” – WNCNative
[...]
“He NEEDS TO PAY FOR WASTING THE TAXPAYERS MONEY” – Transplanted
[...]
“hey dud, get a life. you’re a loser.” – jim
I don’t think Freeborn will win a recount. I seriously doubt Freeborn thinks he will win a recount. He has a responsibility to ensure that the votes are correctly counted. The safeguards are in the law to ensure the integrity of the vote. Freeborn is going to get the recount, lose the election, and let Asheville know that their system works. In the wake of so many questionable elections nationwide, Freeborn’s willingness to endure the taunts of the AC-T troglodytes and those who share their opinion is commendable.
Bryan Freeborn, Scrutiny Hooligans salute you for making sure every vote is correctly counted.
“I seriously doubt Freeborn thinks he will win a recount.”
Gordon – I hope he does think so. Otherwise he is wasting taxpayers’ money – especially if he thinks, “Oh, I lost, but hey, let’s get the numbers right.”
“He has a responsibility to ensure that the votes are correctly counted.”
No – that is either the job of the counters or else, by extension, all of us who are inclined to care. The only reason to request a recount is “I think there is something fishy here”.
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Huw,
I might agree with you in more ‘normal’ times. But these are not them. One important mechanism to a functioning democracy is that the general public believe in the fairness of the elections. The runaway corruption of the Republican party has undermined that trust and it will take a few tax dollars to fix it. If that were the only tax burden left in the wake of Republican corruption we would be in pretty good shape.
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Twitter: gordondsmith
says:
Burgess expands on his article here:
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071120/NEWS01/71119102/1009
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Okay… the first recount I can see. Maybe there was some doubt. This hand recount is simple harassment of the Election Board by Bryan. He should pay for it out of his own pocket. There are no hanging chads here, he lost the election. And it’s not even that close to begin with.
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and from the technology viewpoint… an optical scan / mechanical feed system is never going to be 100% accurate, you’ll get a small but different result every time you run it and the first will be the one closest to correct.
only a true paperless electronic system has a chance of being accurate… assuming no glitches in the software, no security problems, and no idiots voting who couldn’t press a button right to save their lives.
sigh
perhaps we should just get everyone together in a big field and have a show of hands.
or the election folk could just open their windows and at noon on election day, everyone yell real loud for a vote by acclamation.
who knows what the answer is… most of all, not Bryan.
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Oh, Ralph, you’re cracking me up already.
What if Freeborn actually ended up getting a small handful of votes more than Russell (it’s a stretch, I know, but bear with me here), and Russell exercised his legal right to ask for a recount because the totals fell within the legal parameters for a recount. Would you be that quick to dismiss Russell as a whiny, tantrum-throwing spoiled brat, even go as far as accusing him of harassing the BCBOE? Or would your obvious double standard just fly out the window?
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1. I would dispute the claim that these commenters are all the same people. Juicy but unsubstantiated rhetoric.
2. The Let Asheville Vote coalition was dedicated to getting the citizens of Asheville to decide the partisan elections issue rather than four council members. We succeeded.
This is not the same as someone criticizing a request for a recount in a general election.
Whether or not there is any recount, and whatever the outcome, the citizens of Asheville have been able to vote in either case.
The ability to vote is prior to any possible recount. It was the ability to vote on the matter on partisan elections alone that the Let Asheville Vote coalition sought to effect.
I support a candidates right to request a recount and I look forward to knowing for damn certain that Freeborn has been returned to the private sector.
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Hey maybe the friends of Russell can hire the Brooks Brothers and have them stand outsite the recount office screaming to stop the recount. Let’s have our own “Florida” – it be fun to watch.
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Hiring high-end clothiers to stop a recount?
It would make more sense to hire Sansabelt. Especially in Florida.
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Arratik:
a) that’s too much of a stretch
b) I would expect Russell NOT to ask for a recount if the margin was 60 or 70 … simply a waste of taxpayer money.
c) if Bryan and his family enjoy turkey for Thanksgiving tomorrow (and I do wish them and all a very happy one, we DO have much to be thankful for) … well, I’m sure Bryan is gonna dispute the two drumsticks tally and ask for a recount.
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Twitter: gordondsmith
says:
Ralph,
You’re a whining whiner! The law allows for this because there’s a possibility of errors. You would rather have the possibility of error rather than simply ascertain the hard number?
Why would you want that? Deliberately choosing error?
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What do trolls serve for Thanksgiving, anyway?
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David –
“One important mechanism to a functioning democracy is that the general public believe in the fairness of the elections.”
I am perhaps already too cynical on that account to be saved by this exercise.
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not whining, Gordon… Bryan had his recount, he lost… he does not need nor deserve another recount.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Oh, and whoever said I was a troll is wrong, I am more of a Gandalf, he of the white robes and big staff. But, of course, Bryan wants the rings recounted, too.
–Ralph
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Twitter: gordondsmith
says:
The law, Ralph, the law.
The law provides for exactly this situation, and you criticize Freeborn for utilizing it? “Need or deserve” have nothing to do with it (though they certainly betray your feelings about the man), it’s about the fact that election laws were created for just this situation.
It’ll be nice that we’ll have some validation that our voting system is fairly accurate, but even that is secondary to the simple, unavoidable truth that the recount process is part of the election process.
Please stop whining so much about something so ordinary, legal, and reasonable.
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Interesting that he compares himself to Gandalf. I seem to recall Saruman warning him that his “love for the halfling’s leaf has clearly slowed (his) mind.”
I am a dork.
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Saruman did not request a recount… of course, he was in no shape to, but that’s beside the point.
Gordon, just because the law says you can do something does not mean you have to. Bryan had his recount. In the margin of error of optical scanning, it came out essentially the same. He then (and anyone else in that situation) should have congratulated the winner in a sportsman like manner and went on to whatever he’s doing next.
In my opinion, to just keep asking for recounts when the issue is settled is not right. Even Al Gore didn’t do that and he had a lot more reason.
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Twitter: gordondsmith
says:
It doesn’t concern you that there haven’t been two counts that were the same?
This would concern you quite a bit if it were your bank, but not if it’s your democracy?
“Don’t worry, Mr. Roberts, you’re in the black. We’re not sure by how much, but trust that you’re solvent, ok?”
Come on, Ralph. You just like to whine about Bryan Freeborn.
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Huw said -
“I am perhaps already too cynical on that account to be saved by this exercise.”
Huw, I really think that you shouldn’t be. There is no reason to cast doubt of the honesty of the folks at the BOE. Once the hand recount is done, I predict that it will prove just how well our local elections work. Just give it a fair chance.
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“It doesn’t concern you that there haven’t been two counts that were the same?… ”
Well, no… because I understand that some idiot chose optical scanning for counting votes and, technically, it is an statistically impossible for such a system to give the same count every time (albeit, the count will be pretty close).
Our electoral systems have ALWAYS been inexact, long before the 2000 election brought it to most people’s attention.
What’s the answer? I don’t know, but it’s NOT optical scanning.
Meanwhile, people who demand recounts are just playing the lottery and hope they’ll eventually hit a winning number. Then, of course, the other side starts playing.
Do you not agree we have a big problem, Gordon?
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Twitter: gordondsmith
says:
I think that the “idiot” who chose optical scanning probably chose the best possible system, and once the recount(s) are complete, we’ll know.
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Ralph,
The problem with optical scans is not that the system produces errors. The problem is that the errors are detectable. It would be much better to have a “black box” system like touchscreens where errors can’t be detected, right? Wouldn’t that boost confidence in the accuracy of the results? And since touchscreens render recounts impossible in any real sense, then we would probably have fewer recounts. Problem solved!
And neither side would be playing if the results weren’t as close as they are. If Freeborn had lost by more than 100 votes, I’m guessing we wouldn’t be having a recount.
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I don’t believe anyone except Freeborn CAN damand a recount for the purpose of generally checking the accuracy of the system. Freeborn is needed for that purpose and he carrying out his duty.
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I don’t want a system that boosts confidence (optical scans falsely does that), I want a system that is accurate. and I suspect that won’t be anything mechanical or any system where human operators (both the voters and the election people) have ANY choice other than ‘punch red button for candidate.’
Bryan is not ‘doing his duty’ … his duty is done, he needs to hit the road.
Everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving!
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And to you and yours as well, Ralph!
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Did I say bookes brothers ? I meant these guys here: http://makethemaccountable.com/images/caro/MiamiRiot.jpg
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