Comments on: Police State: In Our Own Backyard http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. — Samuel Adams Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:07:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10292 Tim Peck Sat, 28 Jul 2007 23:24:52 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10292 <blockquote>If I was Mr. Kuhn, I would have rolled my window up, and sped off</blockquote> 1. Were you engaged in a lawful, peaceful protest on your own private property? 2. I know for a fact that a law enforcement officer will lie to their supervisors, their peers, the press, and a judge when they know they have broken the law by assaulting an innocent citizen under the color of authority.

If I was Mr. Kuhn, I would have rolled my window up, and sped off

1. Were you engaged in a lawful, peaceful protest on your own private property?

2. I know for a fact that a law enforcement officer will lie to their supervisors, their peers, the press, and a judge when they know they have broken the law by assaulting an innocent citizen under the color of authority.

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]]> By: Screwy Hoolie http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10279 Screwy Hoolie Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:04:14 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10279 I ran into Debbie Kuhn tonight over at Thai Express on Patton. She said she was going to be on Air America tonight. She also said, fist raised, without irony, "Power to the People!" I ran into Debbie Kuhn tonight over at Thai Express on Patton. She said she was going to be on Air America tonight. She also said, fist raised, without irony, “Power to the People!”

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]]> By: shad marsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10275 shad marsh Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:35:39 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10275 you people? you people?

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]]> By: shadmarsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10261 shadmarsh Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:26:57 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10261 I think the crux of this episode relies on whether or not the officer broke the window trying to get in, or if it was broken by the Kuhn's ala slamming it on the officer’s hand as he has stated. If it was broken as the officer stated I believe that would qualify as assault and he would be within the law to enter the home to retrieve them. Their refusal to identify themselves when asked by the officer is a violation of the law, one that has been challenged and upheld by the Supreme Court. the sensible course of action for the officer to have taken would have been to just let them be, as the same goes for the person who reported the "flag desecration"; for the Kuhn’s to have acted responsibly and with level heads when approached by the officer, instead of seeking to intensify the confrontation (which it seems to me they wanted...and received). For me the problem of elevated this incident to the level that it seems to be going (on both sides) is that it is a pretty crummy issue to use to shed light on the real and serious erosion of civil liberties in this country, and gives the “main-stream” one more reason to marginalize the legitimate concerns that people in this country have (including me) on the overall direction we are headed. In short, this sort of confrontational politics serves only to reinforce people’s opinions, not challenge them. I think the crux of this episode relies on whether or not the officer broke the window trying to get in, or if it was broken by the Kuhn’s ala slamming it on the officer’s hand as he has stated. If it was broken as the officer stated I believe that would qualify as assault and he would be within the law to enter the home to retrieve them. Their refusal to identify themselves when asked by the officer is a violation of the law, one that has been challenged and upheld by the Supreme Court.

the sensible course of action for the officer to have taken would have been to just let them be, as the same goes for the person who reported the “flag desecration”; for the Kuhn’s to have acted responsibly and with level heads when approached by the officer, instead of seeking to intensify the confrontation (which it seems to me they wanted…and received).

For me the problem of elevated this incident to the level that it seems to be going (on both sides) is that it is a pretty crummy issue to use to shed light on the real and serious erosion of civil liberties in this country, and gives the “main-stream” one more reason to marginalize the legitimate concerns that people in this country have (including me) on the overall direction we are headed. In short, this sort of confrontational politics serves only to reinforce people’s opinions, not challenge them.

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]]> By: admin http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10259 admin Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:52:51 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10259 "trueamerican" @ 18: <blockquote>Check out the criminal records of Mrs. Kuhn. Convicted Drug Felon that has served time. They are public records. We have young soldiers dying for that flag and your right to even speak the way you do. The least you can do is give them the respect of THEIR FLAG since you obviously dont respect it enough yourself!!! GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!!</blockquote> Scrutiny Hooligans readers might be interested in the fact that this comment originated from an IP address belonging to the Army National Guard. “trueamerican” @ 18:

Check out the criminal records of Mrs. Kuhn. Convicted Drug Felon that has served time. They are public records. We have young soldiers dying for that flag and your right to even speak the way you do. The least you can do is give them the respect of THEIR FLAG since you obviously dont respect it enough yourself!!! GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!!

Scrutiny Hooligans readers might be interested in the fact that this comment originated from an IP address belonging to the Army National Guard.

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10258 Tim Peck Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:35:18 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10258 <blockquote>GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!!</blockquote> The Kuhn's, in their peaceful protests, have a valid criticism and are defending not only the flag but what it supposedly stands for. The thug that forcibly entered their home "under color of authority" and out of personal vendetta and anger is the criminal and deserves a criminal's reward.

GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!!

The Kuhn’s, in their peaceful protests, have a valid criticism and are defending not only the flag but what it supposedly stands for.

The thug that forcibly entered their home “under color of authority” and out of personal vendetta and anger is the criminal and deserves a criminal’s reward.

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]]> By: trueamerican http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10257 trueamerican Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:20:02 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10257 Check out the criminal records of Mrs. Kuhn. Convicted Drug Felon that has served time. They are public records. We have young soldiers dying for that flag and your right to even speak the way you do. The least you can do is give them the respect of THEIR FLAG since you obviously dont respect it enough yourself!!! GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!! Check out the criminal records of Mrs. Kuhn. Convicted Drug Felon that has served time. They are public records. We have young soldiers dying for that flag and your right to even speak the way you do. The least you can do is give them the respect of THEIR FLAG since you obviously dont respect it enough yourself!!! GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE if America and its Flag means that little to you!!!!

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]]> By: petulant http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10250 petulant Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:54:55 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10250 I uploaded the WLOS footage from this afternoon to Youtube. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrzkqkelo6g" rel="nofollow">LINK</a> I uploaded the WLOS footage from this afternoon to Youtube.

LINK

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]]> By: rip http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10249 rip Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:48:28 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10249 LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT is still alive and well in good ol' WNC. Look for this officer to be dismissed and the whole matter swept quietly under the rug. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT is still alive and well in good ol’ WNC.

Look for this officer to be dismissed and the whole matter swept quietly under the rug.

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10248 Tim Peck Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:45:05 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10248 I was assaulted by a sheriff's deputy in Atlanta. He was off-duty, in uniform and commanded me to get on the ground with his ASP raised. I refused. He put me in the hospital. I sued him, the county and the city. I won in two settlements. The officer was fired. I don't care if you have a uniform, a badge and George Bush's signature on your ass, you cannot break the law and assault an innocent citizen engaged in a peaceful protest! In this case, the deputy sheriff broke the law. He was there on a personal mission. He was a thug with a badge. Buncombe County should be sued and the officer brought up on charges. I plan to have the Kuhn's on my television show on URTV and I will be pressing this point. I was assaulted by a sheriff’s deputy in Atlanta. He was off-duty, in uniform and commanded me to get on the ground with his ASP raised. I refused. He put me in the hospital.

I sued him, the county and the city. I won in two settlements. The officer was fired.

I don’t care if you have a uniform, a badge and George Bush’s signature on your ass, you cannot break the law and assault an innocent citizen engaged in a peaceful protest!

In this case, the deputy sheriff broke the law. He was there on a personal mission. He was a thug with a badge. Buncombe County should be sued and the officer brought up on charges.

I plan to have the Kuhn’s on my television show on URTV and I will be pressing this point.

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]]> By: syntax http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10247 syntax Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:21:05 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10247 <p>Hmm... I don't think they will until after they close. Last year I think they put the barricades up @ midnight.</p> <p>I guess we'll find out. :)</p> <p><small>(I voted for Ron Paul once...)</small></p> Hmm… I don’t think they will until after they close. Last year I think they put the barricades up @ midnight.

I guess we’ll find out. :)

(I voted for Ron Paul once…)

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]]> By: petulant http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10246 petulant Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:41:00 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10246 This is completely off-topic, but don't they block those streets over by Asheville Brewing Company this evening for Bel Chere? This is completely off-topic, but don’t they block those streets over by Asheville Brewing Company this evening for Bel Chere?

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]]> By: Drama Queen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10245 Drama Queen Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:33:55 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10245 Then there's 74-year-old Alan McConnell up here in Kensington, MD who has been arrested at a local farmers' market for <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/23/national/main3087866.shtm" rel="nofollow">selling "IMPEACH HIM" buttons.</a> Here's a CBS report: <blockquote>Town officials had previously warned McConnell about peddling his political wares at the market (he is accused of being "aggressive" in his pitch), and had cited him for selling merchandise without a proper permit. McConnell was also warned that he would be arrested if he returned to the market, even though it is public property. McConnell showed up this weekend, when police arrested him and forcibly carried him to a squad car. A crowd of about 40 McConnell supporters booed the arrest, chanting "Free speech!" McConnell was charged with trespassing; he faces 90 days in jail and a $500 fine Officials said kicking him out has nothing to do with politics but with fears that the atmosphere fostered by McConnell and his supporters would create a safety hazard. (Mayor Peter Fosselman even cancelled last Saturday's market.) </blockquote> Not everyone who hates Bush or the war is trainied (or interested in getting trained) in how to be passive when the police are coming after you. But this just made me laugh:<blockquote>he told The Washington Post he uses the money earned to pay for "Impeach Them Both" yard signs. </blockquote> Now, don't you know he's going to "get in trouble" for the signs . . . Then there’s 74-year-old Alan McConnell up here in Kensington, MD who has been arrested at a local farmers’ market for selling “IMPEACH HIM” buttons. Here’s a CBS report:

Town officials had previously warned McConnell about peddling his political wares at the market (he is accused of being “aggressive” in his pitch), and had cited him for selling merchandise without a proper permit.

McConnell was also warned that he would be arrested if he returned to the market, even though it is public property.

McConnell showed up this weekend, when police arrested him and forcibly carried him to a squad car. A crowd of about 40 McConnell supporters booed the arrest, chanting “Free speech!”

McConnell was charged with trespassing; he faces 90 days in jail and a $500 fine

Officials said kicking him out has nothing to do with politics but with
fears that the atmosphere fostered by McConnell and his supporters would create a safety hazard. (Mayor Peter Fosselman even cancelled last Saturday’s market.)

Not everyone who hates Bush or the war is trainied (or interested in getting trained) in how to be passive when the police are coming after you.

But this just made me laugh:

he told The Washington Post he uses the money earned to pay for “Impeach Them Both” yard signs.

Now, don’t you know he’s going to “get in trouble” for the signs . . .

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]]> By: petulant http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10244 petulant Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:20:19 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10244 The comments section at ACT is a very sad read and 350+ now. What I don't understand is why the Kuhn's didn't just show the officer I.D. and take the citation? They could have easily gotten the ACLU involved and fought the charge in court without anything resorting to violence. It seems everyone's temper got the best of them and turned the situation even worse. is anyone else having problems listening to the audio on the ACT site? The comments section at ACT is a very sad read and 350+ now.

What I don’t understand is why the Kuhn’s didn’t just show the officer I.D. and take the citation? They could have easily gotten the ACLU involved and fought the charge in court without anything resorting to violence. It seems everyone’s temper got the best of them and turned the situation even worse.

is anyone else having problems listening to the audio on the ACT site?

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]]> By: bernard b carman http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10243 bernard b carman Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:18:51 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10243 i second Tim Peck's comments, and just want to add... THAT'S TYRANNY FOR YA! i second Tim Peck’s comments, and just want to add…

THAT’S TYRANNY FOR YA!

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]]> By: Kai Schwandes http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10240 Kai Schwandes Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:19:37 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10240 4 syntax says: <blockquote>"Speaking of fascism in America…"</blockquote> Figures that George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott was involved with that, as all Germans learn in school he belonged to the group of American industrialists that bankrolled Hitler(Austrian btw). He had jewish slave labor hired through IG Farben (was the largest chemical manufacturing enterprise in the world) and ThyssenKrupp AG (German steel company giant). And Kerry's family right in the midst of it too. (Of cause Bush and Kerry are cousins after all) Anyone that studies history can easily see that the idea of "Political Parties" and "Government of the People" is a joke because in reality the same fascist families are running the world that have been in charge since the Habsburger (if you never studied that families influence in the world go do it). When are "we the People" wake up and see the world for what it is ... 4 syntax says:

“Speaking of fascism in America…”

Figures that George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott was involved with that, as all Germans learn in school he belonged to the group of American industrialists that bankrolled Hitler(Austrian btw). He had jewish slave labor hired through IG Farben (was the largest chemical manufacturing enterprise in the world) and ThyssenKrupp AG (German steel company giant). And Kerry’s family right in the midst of it too. (Of cause Bush and Kerry are cousins after all)

Anyone that studies history can easily see that the idea of “Political Parties” and “Government of the People” is a joke because in reality the same fascist families are running the world that have been in charge since the Habsburger (if you never studied that families influence in the world go do it).

When are “we the People” wake up and see the world for what it is …

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]]> By: Tim Peck http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10236 Tim Peck Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:58:25 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10236 If a member of law enforcement is alerted to an American flag flying upside down at a residence, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for them to pay a courtesy visit to see if the residents are truly in distress rather than violently barge in to someone's private home and manhandle them into submission and captivity. That would be the American thing to do. The arrogance of government and police power is staggering. It saddens me to hear responses in these pages calling for greater uses of force and violence against peaceful protests, greater restrictions on the speech of authentic patriots, greater losses of individual liberties to the reach and powers of an authoritarian state, and a greater inversion of the sovereignty of the individual in favor of the brute force of government control. Pinto Kroger wrote: <blockquote>"Get this, the Kuhns must be fun-loving REPUBLICANS. The picture of them shows a Ron Paul for President sign!"</blockquote> It is more likely that they are libertarians, like me, who would like to see Ron Paul in the White House, regardless of his party affiliation. I agree with them that this country is in distress; severe distress. I don't believe that the Kuhn's method of communicating that fact is particularly effective, but this incident graphically demonstrates their point quite well. If a member of law enforcement is alerted to an American flag flying upside down at a residence, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for them to pay a courtesy visit to see if the residents are truly in distress rather than violently barge in to someone’s private home and manhandle them into submission and captivity. That would be the American thing to do.

The arrogance of government and police power is staggering.

It saddens me to hear responses in these pages calling for greater uses of force and violence against peaceful protests, greater restrictions on the speech of authentic patriots, greater losses of individual liberties to the reach and powers of an authoritarian state, and a greater inversion of the sovereignty of the individual in favor of the brute force of government control.

Pinto Kroger wrote:

“Get this, the Kuhns must be fun-loving REPUBLICANS. The picture of them shows a Ron Paul for President sign!”

It is more likely that they are libertarians, like me, who would like to see Ron Paul in the White House, regardless of his party affiliation.

I agree with them that this country is in distress; severe distress. I don’t believe that the Kuhn’s method of communicating that fact is particularly effective, but this incident graphically demonstrates their point quite well.

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]]> By: shadmarsh http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10235 shadmarsh Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:49:01 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10235 I think the Kuhn's attitude toward, and assault on, the officer is the reason why they were popped, and this whole flag business seems to be a way for them to be confrontational (not that I have a problem with that)with their community. I think the Kuhn’s attitude toward, and assault on, the officer is the reason why they were popped, and this whole flag business seems to be a way for them to be confrontational (not that I have a problem with that)with their community.

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]]> By: melissa http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10234 melissa Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:37:26 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10234 The people who are bashing the Kuhns seem to be the same ones who bashed the city for fining the fireworks vendor for improperly displaying the flag. So, uh...what am I missing here? The people who are bashing the Kuhns seem to be the same ones who bashed the city for fining the fireworks vendor for improperly displaying the flag. So, uh…what am I missing here?

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]]> By: Drama Queen http://scrutinyhooligans.us/2007/07/26/police-state-in-our-own-backyard/comment-page-1/#comment-10233 Drama Queen Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:30:27 +0000 http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=3696#comment-10233 Matthew Rothschild wrote about this ongoing problem in <a href="http://www.thenewpress.com/index.php?option=com_title&task=view_title&metaproductid=1658" rel="nofollow">"You Have No Rights."</a> It's subtitled " Chilling stories of ordinary Americans whose everyday liberties have been violated since September 11." Here's what his publisher, <a href="http://www.thenewpress.com/" rel="nofollow">the New Press</a> had to say:<blockquote>"I'm very liberal and sometimes my friends say I'm giving them some kind of paranoid, nutty stuff, and I agree, but then the FBI show up." -- Marc Schultz, reported to the FBI for reading an article called "Weapons of Mass Stupidity: Fox News hits a new lowest common denominator" while he stood in line at a coffee shop. In West Virginia, Renee Jensen put up a yard sign saying "Mr. Bush: You're Fired." She's questioned by the Secret Service. In Alabama, Lynne Gobbell put a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker on her car. She's fired from her job. In Vermont, Tom Treece had his high school students write essays and make posters either defending or criticizing the Iraq War. After midnight, the police entered his classroom and took photos of the student artwork. Near Albany, New York, Stephen Downs went to a mall with his son Roger, and the two of them bought shirts in a T-shirt shop. Downs put his shirt on, went to eat in the food court -- and was arrested. The T-shirt's message? "Peace on Earth."</blockquote> Matthew Rothschild wrote about this ongoing problem in “You Have No Rights.” It’s subtitled ” Chilling stories of ordinary Americans whose everyday liberties have been violated since September 11.” Here’s what his publisher, the New Press had to say:
“I’m very liberal and sometimes my friends say I’m giving them some kind of paranoid, nutty stuff, and I agree, but then the FBI show up.” — Marc Schultz, reported to the FBI for reading an article called “Weapons of Mass Stupidity: Fox News hits a new lowest common denominator” while he stood in line at a coffee shop.

In West Virginia, Renee Jensen put up a yard sign saying “Mr. Bush: You’re Fired.” She’s questioned by the Secret Service.

In Alabama, Lynne Gobbell put a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker on her car. She’s fired from her job.

In Vermont, Tom Treece had his high school students write essays and make posters either defending or criticizing the Iraq War. After midnight, the police entered his classroom and took photos of the student artwork.

Near Albany, New York, Stephen Downs went to a mall with his son Roger, and the two of them bought shirts in a T-shirt shop. Downs put his shirt on, went to eat in the food court — and was arrested. The T-shirt’s message? “Peace on Earth.”

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